Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

[Brine_Gildchaff]

^ Apparently this concept was too hard to grasp.

Crying you can't be in raid gear without raiding.

Since when does soldiery gear count as "raid gear"? Raid gear is the High Allagan sets and the i115 weapons. Soldiery gear is like myth gear: the equal-level gear that non-raiders can get by putting in a significant portion of time and effort on other content instead of doing the raid for ~2 hours each week, and limited in how quickly someone can obtain it due to tomestone caps. In fact, it's -harder- to get and requires -more- time and effort than myth gear did because the lockout is lower and soldiery drops in smaller numbers than did myth, and you have to do two steps: soldiery grind for weathered, then hunt/SCoB/2.35 Syrcus grinding to get sands.

(And before you go whinging that people can get sands with zero effort, no they can't. I hunt. I make a party of eight and go scouring the zones, sometimes with one or two people getting info from their LS. My best run we went for 3~4 hours and I ended up with 350 seals by the end, and not a single log to show for it. And even if they could, they're -still- time locked because you need the base soldiery gear to -upgrade- no matter how many sands you get. I've been playing since the 2.2 patch came along and I've only failed to cap one week. I'm only -just- now starting to look at gearing up classes besides my main two. And that's -without- buying a single soldiery weapon, I have animus sword, novus shield, and a thyrus that's one final book away from animus status.)

I don't see what the problem is with having some cut-off to reward people for actually playing through end-game content.

We have that. It's called High Allagan gear (which is BiS for many slots and earns you instant respect from anyone who sees you have it) and even more noticeably, the High Allagan weapons. Even my hard-made Novus doesn't compare to High Allagan, and I've spent far, far more time and work on that than raiders do on Second Coil.

[Thayos]

Except hunts DROP the logs (worth 250 seals) so this wouldn't actually solve anything.

I've seen a few people say this as a rebuttal to having a lockout on seals, and I think it's time we shoot this argument in the face.

Not that I support a weekly cap as the best-possible solution, but to believe that masses of players would continue spamming hunts in hopes of getting log drops is totally bonkers. On A & B-ranked mobs, the drop rate on those books seems similar to atma drop rates. I've been doing hunts for more than a week now, and I have yet to receive a single book. Most others I know have been spamming hunts for a week and have only seen one or two books.

I actually have fun with hunts, but there's no way I'd spend so much time in an event with so little possibility of being rewarded, especially when I could easily pursue other great rewards (ST oils and stones).

The masses are spamming hunts not for the logs, but for the seals. Unlike the atma grind, the ability to get seals from hunts is like a form of progress bar... complete a certain number of hunts, and you're guaranteed to get a reward, even if you don't get a log drop.

Take away the unlimited seals, and suddenly the hunt system (post weekly limit) is Atma 2.0. Beyond the first week of atma FATE farming, the hordes very quickly died off as players realized their carrots were on far too long of sticks. The same thing would happen with hunts if there was a weekly limit on seals.

You'd probably still see the masses flock to S-rank battles, which have a higher percentage chance of dropping books... but the crowds would die down considerably for A & B-ranked mobs, especially by the time the weekends hit.

[Poringing]

To answer OP's question, 'Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people?'

There are many different people with different playstyles:

Example of people who will raid, but not hunt -
"I've cleared T9, bring on T10. Also, I log in 2 hours a week (and nothing more) to coil with my static. BiS? Who needs those. How much are your ilvl110 parses again? 270? I'm ilvl100, doing 320. Next victim!"

Example of people who will raid and hunt -
"I need BiS in at least 3 classes so I can group with literally anyone for everything."

Example of people who did not raid yet, but hunt a lot -
"I'll take these oils and sands and make myself ilvl110; so that someday I can find a group to clear T9 once for the story."

Of course, these are only 3 groups of people, in reality there are countless other groups. So yeah, there are people who coil with hunts around. Remember T5? Everyone was walking in, watched the cutscene in full and then dying to phase 1 'liquid hell' with mostly ilvl90 gear. Not too much issues then.

[xSxExCxOxNxDxSx]

i dont understand why this argument is valid....like countless other people have said if u want to raid then go raid...what is truly unfair is making gear inaccessible to any player who doesnt want to raid...me personally i want to raid but i cant clear t5 in order to start the good stuff...i seriously would like to get high allagan gear but unlike me a majority of players are casual and will not put in the time required or just dont have the time required. and on another point the only true bragging rights at the moment is having high allagan...so imo ur just being a whiney baby because other people have a easier way to do it.

[Kallera]

You mean if the raid gear was superior to the non raid gear? Well since that's the core of the issue.... yea.

Good, glad to know its purely your own ego that's hurt. The higher stats aren't enough for you?

[Sygmaelle]

Since its like 5% difference max I dont think anyone should be upset

[Zarzak]

Since when does soldiery gear count as "raid gear"? Raid gear is the High Allagan sets and the i115 weapons.

Soldiery isn't. Soldiery + sand/oil is.

ilvl 110 = raid tier gear this isn't hard to figure out.

Good, glad to know its purely your own ego that's hurt. The higher stats aren't enough for you?

Mine? No I don't raid atm.

What higher stats? You get the same tier of gear if you sit in town and follow the <pos> calls.

[Eissels]

You mean if the raid gear was superior to the non raid gear? Well since that's the core of the issue.... yea.

I promise you'll be happier if you stop caring about other people's shit and just focus on your own stuff.

[Fendred]

I personally think that the game focuses too heavily on raiding as the main end game activity. As anyone can tell from trying EX primals, a lot of the gaming crowd doesn't respond well to these kinds of encounters. Does that mean they are casual? Hardly. Give them the right gaming experience and many of them will dedicate just as many hours to crafting, hunting, gathering, building, or mini-gaming as any raider applies to raiding. Trying to satisfy a small group of gamers who like one particular kind of activity with a product whose development budget suggests being created to satisfy many different kinds of gamers is a problem that I'm quite happy Yoshida is addressing.

[Dwill]

Since when does soldiery gear count as "raid gear"? Raid gear is the High Allagan sets and the i115 weapons. Soldiery gear is like myth gear: the equal-level gear that non-raiders can get by putting in a significant portion of time and effort on other content instead of doing the raid for ~2 hours each week, and limited in how quickly someone can obtain it due to tomestone caps. In fact, it's -harder- to get and requires -more- time and effort than myth gear did because the lockout is lower and soldiery drops in smaller numbers than did myth, and you have to do two steps: soldiery grind for weathered, then hunt/SCoB/2.35 Syrcus grinding to get sands.

(And before you go whinging that people can get sands with zero effort, no they can't. I hunt. I make a party of eight and go scouring the zones, sometimes with one or two people getting info from their LS. My best run we went for 3~4 hours and I ended up with 350 seals by the end, and not a single log to show for it. And even if they could, they're -still- time locked because you need the base soldiery gear to -upgrade- no matter how many sands you get. I've been playing since the 2.2 patch came along and I've only failed to cap one week. I'm only -just- now starting to look at gearing up classes besides my main two. And that's -without- buying a single soldiery weapon, I have animus sword, novus shield, and a thyrus that's one final book away from animus status.)



We have that. It's called High Allagan gear (which is BiS for many slots and earns you instant respect from anyone who sees you have it) and even more noticeably, the High Allagan weapons. Even my hard-made Novus doesn't compare to High Allagan, and I've spent far, far more time and work on that than raiders do on Second Coil.

Except that soldiery in i110 is the same as High Allagan with a different itemization, quite often being better for a lot of slots. The only real gain from SCoB is the High Allagan weapons and as it has been stated previously, one item does not justify the vast amount of sands being obtained via The Hunt.

Soldiery being a soft-cap as already been discussed as well, it's something that would made sense if they would have came out this patch. The thing is that plenty of people already have 1 job with nearly all, if not all the soldiery pieces therefore allowing for a good amount of sands to be used before soldiery can even be considered a cap (which is going to be never for people playing 1 or 2 jobs only).

The effort necessary for The Hunt is not even remotely close to the one needed to raid. It is time consuming but effortless. You can easily just park your character to an Aetheryte or at one of the few spawns point then go /afk until it spawns or even just /follow people around. You don't need to coordinate encounters, manage drops, manage the schedule of your static, getting the consumables for your raid night and so on. You just need a spreadsheet that's been built by someone else or a website that calculates the approximate time for you and zerg stuff until it dies.

I personally think that the game focuses too heavily on raiding as the main end game activity. As anyone can tell from trying EX primals, a lot of the gaming crowd doesn't respond well to these kinds of encounters. Does that mean they are casual? Hardly. Give them the right gaming experience and many of them will dedicate just as many hours to crafting, hunting, gathering, building, or mini-gaming as any raider applies to raiding. Trying to satisfy a small group of gamers who like one particular kind of activity with a product whose development budget suggests being created to satisfy many different kinds of gamers is a problem that I'm quite happy Yoshida is addressing.

You have around 3 hours of raiding a week in this game when you clear T9, that's it (that includes your static doing Syrcus Tower for Oils/Stones, else even less than 3). How is that even remotely close to too much ?

Casuals are already dedicating countless hours to everything you mentioned so I'm not even sure what kind of data/evidence you are using to back up such an exaggerated statement.