a pretty serious question

[Gilthas]

Thta's just a bad joke and you sir have no idea, ppl should talk only about things they know, the NM system worked in FFXI, it doesn't matter if you liked it or not.

The NM system of FFXI was utter crap. You spent hours doing absolutely nothing, wasting time waiting for things to pop, with the very real possibility of losing claim on the mob, making all those hours even more of a waste of time.

FFXIV's hunts have all the same problems minus one.

I want to actually play the game, not stand/run around doing nothing.

[Tupsi]

I thought you said this was a serious question...

What I'm thinking, since unless the world is Vanadiel, it's kind of impossible to be playing a sequel where the world is completely different. I mean, when we played Resident Evil 2 there were plenty to link back to Resident Evil 1.

The NM system of FFXI was utter crap.

Current NM system in FFXI:

Voidwatch NM - Popped.
Walk of Echos - Prespawned NMs based on the conflux you go into.
Quest based NMs - Majority are popped or on 1-5 minute respawn timers, you also gain full credit being in the party and in exp range.
ZNM - Popped tiers of NM.
Most regular world NMs - Drops R/E version of now crafted items or items that drop in BCNM type arenas.
Fracture - Popped NMs or you go inside of their domain.

I don't see how that's utter crap, as you say.

[Gilthas]

Current NM system in FFXI:

Voidwatch NM - Popped.
Walk of Echos - Prespawned NMs based on the conflux you go into.
Quest based NMs - Majority are popped or on 1-5 minute respawn timers, you also gain full credit being in the party and in exp range.
ZNM - Popped tiers of NM.
Most regular world NMs - Drops R/E version of now crafted items or items that drop in BCNM type arenas.
Fracture - Popped NMs or you go inside of their domain.

I don't see how that's utter crap, as you say.

We've danced this dance before. You know fully well that when people ask for the FFXI NMs they aren't asking for popped NMs, but asking for camping for hours and a claim system. And yes, that IS utter crap because instead of actually playing the game I'm stuck in a zone waiting for something to pop.

[Tupsi]

You know fully well that when people ask for the FFXI NMs they aren't asking for popped NMs, but asking for camping for hours and a claim system. And yes, that IS utter crap because instead of actually playing the game I'm stuck in a zone waiting for something to pop.

See, that's where the disconnect is: Most people who played XI likely played it up to and through Abyssea prior to XIV as Abyssea was 2009 content, long after XI moved to Popped NMs for most systems. While like or hate Abyssea, it's when XI started changing even more, so when people speak of XI prior to it, they don't always mean "free roam" NMs, because at least since late 2005 things changed past that aside land kings. Most rare items even moved to BCNM/KSNMs at that point. You're just speaking as if no one is talking about the improved systems that even existed in XI since not even XI largely uses a 'free roam' system for NMs that matter anymore.

[Gilthas]

stuff

You have a really bad habit of ignoring the context of posts.

The guy was saying that the NM system of FFXI worked because it has a claim/credit system, which obviously means that he's talking about non-popped NMs.

[Renik]

You have a really bad habit of ignoring the context of posts.
The guy was saying that the NM system of FFXI worked because it has a claim/credit system, which obviously means that he's talking about non-popped NMs.

Tupsi explained it well, there were popped NMs even before abyssea, you had roaming and popped NMs, if you needed or wanted gear from an NM you could hunt it or make gil to buy it, or you could just get different gear from another source.

The ffxi NM system worked because it was challenging, competitive and not mandatory, of course this system can't work in FFXIV, but it's not because it's outdated or boring, it's just because this game has some serious limitations to introduce it.

[LineageRazor]

The NM system of FFXI did not work. As bad as hunts currently are, they're still better than what we had in FFXI.

Thta's just a bad joke and you sir have no idea, ppl should talk only about things they know, the NM system worked in FFXI, it doesn't matter if you liked it or not.

To be honest, imo you're both wrong - FFXI random-spawn NMs did not work well in FFXI, and the Hunts are just as bad and for most of the same reasons.

In FFXI, NMs would spawn in various areas that would drop valuable items. These NMs were not difficult to kill. Dozens of people would hunt them for hours, with only one person managing to get exclusive claim.

In FFXIV, NMs spawn in various areas that drop points used to purchase valuable items. These NMs are not difficult to kill. Hundreds of people hunt them for hours, with only the first view people who manage to make it to the spawn site before the mob is killed managing to get any reward.

Both types of NMs encourage the use of third-party tools to assist in finding and capturing the NM before anyone else. Both types of NMs promote hard feelings and angry accusations between the folks who manage to get the reward, and the folks who wind up empty-handed. Both types of NMs encourage people to spend hours upon hours hunting them, often for little or no reward. In my eyes, hunts embody some of the WORST things that FFXIV could have learned from FFXI.

[Mugiawara]

lol poor yoshi.
he tries his hardest to please the crowd in certain things.
and when he does, they are implemented in the worst way possible.

[Lemuria]

XI: 5 real life hours being required for the chocobo riding quest.
XIV: nnnnope.

To be fair to FFXI, the quest was at least meaningful, and chocobo's effectively made you invulnerable. Needing to get to Jeuno to begin the quest meant that you had made it past some fairly dangerous territory, which in itself was a nice learning curve for the evade mechanics needed later on.

XI: Being able to access certain areas is dependent on how far in an expansion you are.
XIV: nnnnope.

There are no expansions yet, thus this argument is rather silly. For all we know, you'll need to unlock areas later on when the expansion is released. We'll have to wait and see.

XIV: modifiers, submodifiers, sub-submodifiers requiring gear changes for every skill you use.
XIV: nope.

No, instead we get some vanilla armor with no real bonus to it. Be honest, gear at least had flavour in FFXI. Whether that's increases to various combat or casting skills, direct cure potency increases or massive damage bonuses from the elemental staffs. What do we get to differentiate between armors here? Which one looks nicer... that's about it. Oh, and occasionally you'll have to choose between critical or spell speed.

At any rate, there is plenty of 'Tanaka-ism' going on lately, and it's rather unnerving. The first alarm bell was 'master' crafting and the new level 70 tools. The second was atma grinding and animus/novus. And now we've got NMs running amok and being monopolized by linkshells with radars. If that doesn't smell like Tanaka's FFXI, then I don't know what does.

The NM system of FFXI did not work. As bad as hunts currently are, they're still better than what we had in FFXI.

No, they really aren't. Here's why. FFXI notorious monsters dropped specific loot. Great if you don't have it, but useless if you already do. This meant that some mobs were less appreciated than others, giving people a reasonable chance of trying for most of the NMs. Sure there were a handful of monopolized mobs, usually the so-called HNMs, but they were often few and far between.

Compare and contrast to FFXIV where every single enemy drops similar loot, and gives allied seals which can be traded for things such as oils of time for endgame gear. Now every single NM, regardless of how menial, becomes a target for a hunter. Everything is still furthering their cause no matter how many times that monster is slain.

[Eissels]

"This is an FF Game, so obviously everyone who plays it wants mindless, korean-MMO-esque grinding!"

Sigh.