Is the PS3(4?) holding back the game?

[BeaverDono]

^ Seriously, I was excepting more of this.. such a disappointing thread.

All jokes aside, my old static had a lot of PS3/PS4 users and they didn't have a performance issue at all.

I really think it does boil down to a player's style. Would you rather be sitting on your couch with a controller in your hand (and VoIP working on your phone at times) or sitting in a computer chair at a desk?

Or like me, hook up the computer to the living room widescreen and just park it on the couch for hours on end?

If anything, SE did a good job letting us all get together and play with each other and I hope they keep up the great work.

[Grizzlebeard]

When we look at gear design, we notice an unhealthy "copy-paste" culture. When we assume that this culture wasn't born out of lazyness, only one other thing comes to mind: the limitations of an 8 year old console (PS3).

See WoW.

Logic fail.

[SinisterJoint]

"Increase our inventories!"
SE: "PS2 Limitations prevent us from doing so" = "We have no plans to currently."

Uhh no, that is wrong.... very wrong.

This sentence actually means what it says, not what you think it does. They cannot make the inventory larger than 80 because of the consoles. Not just ps2 but xbox as well. Sorry.

Also, yes.... current consoles do hold the game back (READ LIMIT) of what it can do. You are foolish if you think otherwise. The way you are reading into this is pretty hilarious though. lol

[Snorgrind]

I see this thread turned into a PC/PS battle. I would think they probably need both on the same servers. Could you imagine que times for dungeons if they weren't. Then there would be, "can we please have cross platform servers so que times aren't so long" threads.

i dont care if servers are cross platform or not, what i want are EU servers

[Yukiba]

when the PS3 gets to be too big of a detriment to the game Yoshi will drop ps3 support. Hes stated it several times.

[Tupsi]

Uhh no, that is wrong.... very wrong.

This sentence actually means what it says, not what you think it does. They cannot make the inventory larger than 80 because of the consoles. Not just ps2 but xbox as well. Sorry.

Also, yes.... current consoles do hold the game back (READ LIMIT) of what it can do. You are foolish if you think otherwise. The way you are reading into this is pretty hilarious though. lol

Not wrong at all. They used PS2 limitations as an excuse for the longest. If the PS2 limits their ability to increase inventory space and they still did it years later while XI is still a PS2 game as of 2014, that means the limitation wasn't what held it back, just them not wanting to do the work around needed to get it, hence "no current plans" Anyone who's played XI knows they used quite a lot of excuses to not give us what we wanted at the time. They said they couldn't take inventories past 70 because of "PS2 limitations" and "we can't offer any other inventory systems due to it", yet they introduced Mog Sack, Satchel and Mog Case.

Then again I've learned not to take things as face value when it comes to business, perk of working with them I guess.

It's funny though - whenever someone asks about why PC Only MMOs never really do much beyond "the safe route" no one has an answer - If consoles hold back MMOs, what's holding back MMOs on a platform with virtually no limits as the technology improves basically every couple of months? Pretty sure having access to more than 16gb ram and terabytes upon terabytes of drive space ontop of 6+ core processors can lead to some pretty amazing things....

Yet most PC only MMOs are still designed like 2004 PC MMOs with prettier graphics. You can try to argue "to allow everyone to play", but in reality, if you're rocking a Dual Core or Core Duo PC/Laptop in 2014..they really shouldn't be designing with that in mind, because that means console based MMOs are technically better at that point.

So since you can see the future and believes SE tells no lies - What's the PS3 and PS4 holding back? What couldn't they do in the first Expansion due to the system that held back a system? I mean, if SE can introduce new systems to a PS2 era MMO in a monthly update, what can they not do with a game developed on the PC and later ported to consoles?

[SinisterJoint]

Not wrong at all. They used PS2 limitations as an excuse for the longest. If the PS2 limits their ability to increase inventory space and they still did it years later

You need to read what I said. Tell me which bag in XI has more than 80 slots. NONE because the consoles limit it to that. I didn't say they didn't or couldn't add more bags, I said they couldn't make bags more than 80 spaces because of memory issues.This is FACT and im too lazy to find you the post. I'm sure if you search though that you can find it.


You want to know what is holding back PC Only mmo's? Economics. If you design a game that only high end pc's can realistically play then you aren't getting the most bang for your buck.

Not everyone has over 16gig of ram, or a 6+ core processor, or a 3gig + graphics card. To design a game like that would be stupid because you are only reaching a small target audience.

Why can't I argue "to allow everyone to play"?? It designed like that to allow people to catch up with new hardware? Consoles still wouldn't be better because you still cant upgrade them.

Don't confuse technology with hardware limitations, which the consoles have.

Why do you think our inventories in ARR are so small, ps3 memory.

Your lack of knowledge when it comes to computer parts and what they do explains why you think monthly updates = system still prevalent.

Since you are asking what the ps3 and ps4 are holding back, I'll bite. It's the fact that you cannot upgrade their hardware. They are stagnant systems, meaning that what you see is what you get. Where as a pc is more like a revolving door, capable of having new hardware come in and old hardware go out. THAT is why. It doesn't take someone who can "see the future" to see that.

[RentisB]

Are there things the PS3 can't do that the ps4/pc can, sure. However I'd like to note that they have been including things in the updates that only affect the PS4/PC so that leaves me very hopeful that they aren't and won't ever base the game on the lowest common denominator.

Sure there'll be things that aren't as great as they could be but overall I think the game is doing fine and any new things that the PS3 can't handle will just be put in a PS4/PC specific patch, like the inventory expansion thing this patch.

I played ff11 on and off since it launched and they didn't start doing PC/360 specific updates until just a few years ago, so I'm very hopeful for 14's future. They seem much less "no! must work on ps3 or not at all!"

[Tupsi]

You need to read what I said. Tell me which bag in XI has more than 80 slots..

I played XI since 2002 - They stated flatout they could never take inventories beyond 70. Then they eventually gave us 80 slots. So, how does it go from "never going beyond 70" to giving us:

+80 Main Inventory
+80 Mog Sack
+80 Mog Case
+80 Mog Satchel

SE was quite known for using PS2 Limitations as a "no" or "no current plans" excuse.

Don't confuse technology with hardware limitations, which the consoles have.

So..no answer? Understood, since I'm damn sure consoles are technology and hardware because hardware is a technology because it's the technology that drives the hardware to do what it can do.

Since you are asking what the ps3 and ps4 are holding back, I'll bite. It's the fact that you cannot upgrade their hardware.

That's why I asked this question:

what's holding back MMOs on a platform with virtually no limits as the technology improves basically every couple of months?

FFXI and FFXIV ARR have a few more things going for it than what PC only MMOs offer in terms of systems. While ARR is extremely basic in design, for being "held back" they sure went all out graphically and the use of promixity sound that PC only MMOs seem to struggle with - while likewise many PC only MMOs are using standard engines which let them do a bit more (for example far less clipping, which was a design choice and not due to any limitations.)

[Ryel]

Not wrong at all. They used PS2 limitations as an excuse for the longest. If the PS2 limits their ability to increase inventory space and they still did it years later while XI is still a PS2 game as of 2014, that means the limitation wasn't what held it back, just them not wanting to do the work around needed to get it, hence "no current plans" Anyone who's played XI knows they used quite a lot of excuses to not give us what we wanted at the time. They said they couldn't take inventories past 70 because of "PS2 limitations" and "we can't offer any other inventory systems due to it", yet they introduced Mog Sack, Satchel and Mog Case.

Then again I've learned not to take things as face value when it comes to business, perk of working with them I guess.

It's funny though - whenever someone asks about why PC Only MMOs never really do much beyond "the safe route" no one has an answer - If consoles hold back MMOs, what's holding back MMOs on a platform with virtually no limits as the technology improves basically every couple of months? Pretty sure having access to more than 16gb ram and terabytes upon terabytes of drive space ontop of 6+ core processors can lead to some pretty amazing things....

Yet most PC only MMOs are still designed like 2004 PC MMOs with prettier graphics. You can try to argue "to allow everyone to play", but in reality, if you're rocking a Dual Core or Core Duo PC/Laptop in 2014..they really shouldn't be designing with that in mind, because that means console based MMOs are technically better at that point.

So since you can see the future and believes SE tells no lies - What's the PS3 and PS4 holding back? What couldn't they do in the first Expansion due to the system that held back a system? I mean, if SE can introduce new systems to a PS2 era MMO in a monthly update, what can they not do with a game developed on the PC and later ported to consoles?

You're trying so hard to make the point that a PC only MMO should have this groundbreaking set of systems and mechanics that would fully tax most high end PCs that you're missing the simple fact that most modern MMOs designed to hit a large number of average spec PCs would already blow away what the Ps3 is capable of.

I really don't want this to delve further into a PC vs Console discussion more than it's starting to already, the OP asked if the Ps3/4 will pose issues for the game in the long run and the simple answer is this:

If this game wants to maintain longevity and still compete on the level of modern MMOs being released both now and in the next few years the Ps3 will have to be dropped.

As stated in this thread already Yoshida is aware of this and is prepared to do so. However it wont likely happen within the next year or two, and more than likely you'll have plenty of notice / time to either invest in a Ps4 or a new PC by that time as either option will most likely last you much longer.