Physick vs Adloquium

[SeraviEdalborez]

I was mocking you. WARs do not take more damage inherently. Even comparing a bad WAR to a bad PLD. It has been repeatedly stated that Shield Oath and Defiance are about equal in terms of eHP.

[IveraIvalice]

I was mocking you. WARs do not take more damage inherently. Even comparing a bad WAR to a bad PLD. It has been repeatedly stated that Shield Oath and Defiance are about equal in terms of eHP.

You don't have to clarify, I knew you were. But since you seem to need a clarification, my "^" ment that I am absolutely saying what you think I am.

My opinion stands. The effect of defiance and shield oath are not the same, it will take about twice the heals to get a war topped off then it would a pld. You can mock me all you want but my experiences will out weight your empty words.
Regardless, I'm not here to debate with you. There are a lot more bad wars then there are bad plds. And I've seen far too many thinking that the healer is the problem. Just keep that in mind op.

[Lyrinn]

If anything, a good WAR is easier to keep up. With Beserk+Bloodbath, Vengeance, and IB, a WAR can sustain himself through a large pull without requiring too many heals. PLD can do HG with Bulwark and Sentinel after but he will still require heals.

The effect of defiance and shield oath are not the same, it will take about twice the heals to get a war topped off then it would a pld.

And then you realise Defiance also gives them a healing boost to make up for the larger health pool. The math has been done, EHP is roughly the same.

You can mock me all you want but my experiences will out weight your empty words.

The irony.

[IveraIvalice]

If anything, a good WAR is easier to keep up. With Beserk+Bloodbath, Vengeance, and IB, a WAR can sustain himself through a large pull without requiring too many heals. PLD can do HG with Bulwark and Sentinel after but he will still require heals.


And then you realise Defiance also gives them a healing boost to make up for the larger health pool. The math has been done, EHP is roughly the same.


The irony.

I know exactly what defiance does but having less defense means he's losing that hp faster then a pld would. Again I'm speaking from experience not what other people say on the internet
Keep showing your intelligence, I love it.

But since this seems to keep going over people's head, let me explain again.
There are more bad wars out there then bad plds. Denying that is saying that war is just as easy to play effectively as pld and that's simply not true. I play with too many wars who do not, do NOT, know how to play effectively. And it's possible that the problem is not the op healing but the tank

[SeraviEdalborez]

I know exactly what defiance does but having less defense means he's losing that hp faster then a pld would.

They don't have less defense though. At all. Do we need to do math?

Arbitrary numbers
Physick: 1000 (1200 to warrior)
Damage taken: 500/hit
Paladin: 7000 HP
Warrior: 7000 HP * 1.25 = 8750

Paladin takes damage from 6 enemies.
7000 - (500 * 0.8) *6 = 7000 - 2400 = 4600/7000 HP remaining (65.7%)

Warrior takes damage from 6 enemies.
8750 - 500*6 = 5750/8750 HP remaining (65.7%)

Physick gives 14% max HP back to the paladin, 14% max HP back to the Warrior.

[Kelya]

Paladin takes damage from 6 enemies.
7000 - (500 * 0.8) *6 = 7000 - 2400 = 4600/7000 HP remaining (65.7%)

Warrior takes damage from 6 enemies.
8750 - 500*6 = 5750/8750 HP remaining (65.7%)

Physick gives 14% max HP back to the paladin, 14% max HP back to the Warrior.

Thanks for your mathematical post, I totally agree with this, WAR and PLD are different, but it's all about proportionality so they remain equal.

Nevertheless, we always see a BIG DIFFERENCE on BIG ATTACKS between WAR and PLD.

On Death Sentence - T5, for instance, it appears clearly that the WAR takes more damages than the PLD (each with his buff, each with Aldo + SS or whatever you want).

The fact is, for the healers, it's more painful to full up a WAR that may sometimes go on 20% HP after a sentence, rather than a PLD who almost never go under 60% HP after a sentence. At this point, we need more heal to cast on the war that we would have needed on the PLD.

And it's not only on Death Sentence, similars facts happen on Leviathan EX, Mountain buster (you clearly see the difference, even if you heal 20% more on the WAR).
It's not about good/bad WAR too, I use to play with an excellent WAR and he's the first to admit this huge difference on big big damages incoming.

Generally, when I heal a WAR I'll still need more Cure to full him than if I would have healed a PLD. But maybe it's just me and I'm completly wrong.
Anyway, I can't tell if it's just a feeling or reality, but if this feeling is shared by a lot of healers, then maybe the proportionality between PLD and WAR isn't very correct.

[Nyalia]

They don't have less defense though. At all. Do we need to do math?

Arbitrary numbers
Physick: 1000 (1200 to warrior)
Damage taken: 500/hit
Paladin: 7000 HP
Warrior: 7000 HP * 1.25 = 8750

Paladin takes damage from 6 enemies.
7000 - (500 * 0.8) *6 = 7000 - 2400 = 4600/7000 HP remaining (65.7%)

Warrior takes damage from 6 enemies.
8750 - 500*6 = 5750/8750 HP remaining (65.7%)

Physick gives 14% max HP back to the paladin, 14% max HP back to the Warrior.

Your point is solid, and I totally agree with you that PLD and WAR eHP are the same. However, there is one small difference between Defiance and Shield Oath: the healing. If Defiance gave a +25% healing boost instead of a +20% healing boost, then all of the numbers would be identical like you said, but it doesn't. It's small enough that it isn't really worth considering, but it's there.

The healing on the PLD in your example was 1000/7000 = 14.2857% of max HP
The healing on the WAR in your example was 1200/8750 = 13.7143% of max HP

This means it is slightly easier to heal up a PLD than it is to heal up a WAR. Again, it's a very small difference. If you heal for 1000 with Physick and the PLD was down to 1 HP, you'd need 7 Physicks to heal him to full. If the WAR was down to 1 HP, 7 Physicks would only get her to 8401/8750.

Of course, this is only comparing two skills. When you consider all skills, WAR and PLD are extremely similar and have the same survivability.

[Kelya]

Maybe that explains why I feel like I need more heals / why my heals seem to be a little less efficient on most of the WAR I take care. But they still seem to be more than 0,6% less effective (0,6% comes from the difference 14,2857% - 13,7143%).

However, I can confirm that healing a very good WAR makes ZERO differences compared to a very good PLD, certainly thanks to Inner Beast as someone told, that you can pop very often in addition to any others long CD.

[Jican]

snip

I'm going to nip this in the butt. The warriors have more HP because they get more damage not because of their inherent lack of defense, but because Pld take less damage % because of their SHIELD. Shield's, when they block, mitigate a certain damage percentage, as well as it's own defense to add to the max D. Defiance and Shield Oath have their perks, but don't forget the basics.

[aerolol]

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^
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