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  1. #1
    Player
    Sapphic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Character
    Sapphic Meow
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fendred View Post
    Duelle, the black mage wouldn't be designed around rotations if the developers were going for elemental resistances. The black mage would have several different kinds of elemental spells to use in place of fire when fighting something that is resistant or immune to it.
    You don't see the pointlessness in that?

    Instead of using one button to attack (fire) you just spam practically the same thing that is ice or lightning. Just pointless extra abilities that are fight specific. Fire bolt, ice bolt, lightning bolt. Same potency. What is the point? There would be no "complexity" at all. It would be more limiting if you could only use 1 elemental type on certain fights and not your full arsenal.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    Tupsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,149
    Character
    Odsarzol Que
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    You don't see the pointlessness in that?

    Instead of using one button to attack (fire) you just spam practically the same thing that is ice or lightning. Just pointless extra abilities that are fight specific. Fire bolt, ice bolt, lightning bolt. Same potency. What is the point? There would be no "complexity" at all. It would be more limiting if you could only use 1 elemental type on certain fights and not your full arsenal.
    Think back to every RPG that has a caster with multiple spells.

    Then think about the situations in which you'd shift around your spells rather than having only 2 truly useful elements while the 3rd is a simple DoT element. All it truly does is open up having more spells to choose from rather than just spamming Fire on Ifrit for example (which by all rights should heal him lol.)
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    Sapphic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,308
    Character
    Sapphic Meow
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tupsi View Post
    Think back to every RPG that has a caster with multiple spells.

    Then think about the situations in which you'd shift around your spells rather than having only 2 truly useful elements while the 3rd is a simple DoT element. All it truly does is open up having more spells to choose from rather than just spamming Fire on Ifrit for example (which by all rights should heal him lol.)
    So instead fo spamming Fire, you would spam ice. Whereas now you can use fire, ice and thunder, in other words, every damage ability does damage. instead of select few for each boss. Hence the effect of elementals resistance being more limiting than not having it. Hence their is no "increased complexity".

    Ifrit, spam ice. Shiva (when released) spam fire. Yawn. Or lets go further and make some magic immune, so casters are worthless on them, just like certain ones in FFXI. (thats sarcasm btw).

    More abilities will be added as level cap is raised, which according to Yoshi in previous posts/interviews, they will raise cap when new classes/jobs are introduced. Whether thats still the plan... tell ya closer to 2.4 XD TBH I think things are going to start to get really interesting come the xpac.
    (1)
    Last edited by Sapphic; 07-12-2014 at 01:57 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Tupsi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    3,149
    Character
    Odsarzol Que
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    Ifrit, spam ice. Shiva (when released) spam fire. Yawn. Or lets go further and make some magic immune, so casters are worthless on them, just like certain ones in FFXI. (thats sarcasm btw).
    Btw, there's a Hunt monster that shifts immunities between Physical and Magical.
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    Felis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    12,287
    Character
    Skadi Felis
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    Ifrit, spam ice. Shiva (when released) spam fire.
    If it woul be like in 1.x, it would be Wind against Ifrit

    Wind > Fire > Ice > Wind
    That would make WHM the best DD against Ifrit if Wind would not be a DoT ^^

    I still wish CNJ would have get the BLM job. Keep the element spells together instead of tear them apart to give one half to THM.

    THM would have been good WHM. After all they are priests (even if a bit greedy sometimes) and had all the astral spells (and umbral spells) and it was the best healer.
    (2)
    Last edited by Felis; 07-12-2014 at 04:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Duelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,965
    Character
    Duelle Urelle
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphic View Post
    You don't see the pointlessness in that?

    Instead of using one button to attack (fire) you just spam practically the same thing that is ice or lightning. Just pointless extra abilities that are fight specific. Fire bolt, ice bolt, lightning bolt. Same potency. What is the point? There would be no "complexity" at all. It would be more limiting if you could only use 1 elemental type on certain fights and not your full arsenal.
    Yay, someone finally gets it.

    Back when they were discussing changes to spells before the ability revamp, I figured they would use a ramp up mechanic but for each element. Looking back I realize how cluttered that would have made the ability bars. A concession had to be made for the sake of mechanics, and in a way it's impressive that they managed to give all elements a role within BLM's combat model over making one usable and others rubbish depending on the fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tupsi View Post
    Think back to every RPG that has a caster with multiple spells.
    Think back to all the cluttered spell lists. Think back to the fact some RPG concepts don't transition well into an MMORPG.
    (2)
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line like good little casters.
    * Design ideas:
    Red Mage - COMPLETE (https://tinyurl.com/y6tsbnjh), Chemist - Second Pass (https://tinyurl.com/ssuog88), Thief - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/vdjpkoa), Rune Fencer - First Pass (https://tinyurl.com/y3fomdp2)

  7. #7
    Player
    odintius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    901
    Character
    Odintius Baelsar
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    Back when they were discussing changes to spells before the ability revamp, I figured they would use a ramp up mechanic but for each element. Looking back I realize how cluttered that would have made the ability bars. A concession had to be made for the sake of mechanics, and in a way it's impressive that they managed to give all elements a role within BLM's combat model over making one usable and others rubbish depending on the fight.
    Think back to all the cluttered spell lists. Think back to the fact some RPG concepts don't transition well into an MMORPG.
    I played blackmage in ffxi allot with all those spells was awesome and marco's becomes you friend quickly you could use any spell quickly and accuratly depending on what your doing all that was required was some effort on players part to set that up. With the current macro system it even more easy to do the /macroicon is a god given tool imo.
    (0)