You have enough casual/fluff content now, how about that endgame progression SEnix?

[Kallera]

if raiders choose to to partake in any of the content outside of raiding they don't have to but they really shouldn't complain about lack of content. More raid content wanted, sure go for it. Just don't detract from the current development cycle to do so. Raiders not getting a new raid every patch means they don't raid. Casuals not getting anything for a patch means unsubs and thus no development funds for new content.

So "paying customers are free to make suggestions so long as no one changes anything." Gotcha

I don't even like coil, and I still think it is too much the focus for high end content. Too much of progression and highest rewards is focused on this tiny series of raids. I'd feel a lot better if said high end content was not just in hard coil, but hard hunts, fates, hests, crafting. Spread the difficulty, and the bounty that comes in clearing it, to other aspects of the game.

[CYoung187]

Blah blah blah endless complaining. Every patch isn't going to be for everyone, get over it.

[Garlyle]

We haven't INCREASED the amount of relevant raid content since the game re-released.

What exactly are Syrcus Tower's drops then? Swiss cheese? 'Cause last I checked Oil of Time still makes several best-in-slot equips, and so do Sands of Time which are to be added as rewards there in 2.35-ish. If that was the actual point of the original post, then for once 2.3 is actually the first patch to add an alternative to earning rewards on the same tier as the present Coil rewards.

But no, reading what the OP posted later, they really do seem less interested in what the content is or how much of it there is - just whether or not it has a shiny new item level upgrade, because otherwise it doesn't matter because it's not progression, and if your only interest is whether or not your gear numbers are raising, I will still stand by it - XIV is not going to be your game ever.

[Welsper59]

I agree, not everyone's completed the end game content. But here's the kicker, no matter how long you wait before you add new content, not everyone who wants to will have completed but here's a fun fact: that content doesn't disappear! So if new content is added, you can still do it while people who have completed the previous one can move on. People who have coil on farm and already have CT2 on farm have at the very best 3 to 4 hours of content top to raid. That's literally one night of raiding while people who don't like raiding gets to enjoy their own playstyle for hours upon end.

Honestly, telling raiders to just shut up and stop whining is quite the hypocrite, selfish and egocentric statement to say. You guys have plenty to do already and Square Enix adding actual endgame progression isn't going to prevent you from doing what you already are and will give people with a diffrent but legitimate playstyle than you to do something they enjoy as well.

I think people need to understand what a goal implies. If the devs/Yoshi-P have a goal for universal fun as a priority, you're definitely in the wrong part of the gaming world if you're hoping for a lot of focus on endgame raids. A lot of players do want this universal fun more than they want purely endgame raiding. Would you prefer a couple turns of Coil over housing? Would you prefer another endgame raid over Gold Saucer? If you said "yes" to any of that, you're on a downward spiral to disappointment if you stay here. You just wouldn't be part of the overall intended audience for this game.

That's not to say they won't do things to cater to the endgame raider mentality, as is evident by their introduction of Extreme modes and Coil difficulty. It's just not their overall focus, nor is it going to be for the foreseeable future. If you crave the endgame raids over other universal content by a huge margin, as in you'd quit the game if they continued down the path they're currently set on, you're better off with more established games.

[Arrak]

if raiders choose to to partake in any of the content outside of raiding they don't have to but they really shouldn't complain about lack of content. More raid content wanted, sure go for it. Just don't detract from the current development cycle to do so. Raiders not getting a new raid every patch means they don't raid. Casuals not getting anything for a patch means unsubs and thus no development funds for new content.

Lessening the 4 mans that get implemented and then abandoned to a roulette the next patch isn't detracting from the development cycle. There's casual LFR CT in odd numbered patches. Rather than introduce 3 new 4 mans and instantly make the previous 3 4 mans irrelevant while Coil still is relevant, they could implement a shorter 8 man instance with CT. How often do you go back to do Wanderer's Palace or Pharos Sirius compared to how often do you queue for old Coil? There's plenty of PF's looking for people for old Coil farming even with the DF of it. Content that requires some thought process brings more community to the game than entering a DF, not saying a word other than "hello", and speed clearing a 4 man. Raid content is longer lasting than dungeon content and a better investment than 4 mans that are finished in 30 minutes.

[Zarzak]

Blah blah blah endless complaining. Every patch isn't going to be for everyone, get over it.

No patch has been for raiders. Every patch they INCREASE the amount of casual content. We haven't seen an increase in relevant raid content yet.

Relevant raid content

-Coil 6-9 (4 events)

Relevant casual content

1. Hunts
2. Relic
3. Dungeons (11 to choose from for your soldiery farming needs)
4. CT (4 events)
5. Primals (3 now for ilvl 100?)

And the kicker... They don't even need to do the raid content to get 110 gear now

We haven't INCREASED the amount of relevant raid content since the game re-released.

What exactly are Syrcus Tower's drops then? Swiss cheese? 'Cause last I checked Oil of Time still makes several best-in-slot equips, and so do Sands of Time which are to be added as rewards there in 2.35-ish. If that was the actual point of the original post, then for once 2.3 is actually the first patch to add an alternative to earning rewards on the same tier as the present Coil rewards.

But no, reading what the OP posted later, they really do seem less interested in what the content is or how much of it there is - just whether or not it has a shiny new item level upgrade, because otherwise it doesn't matter because it's not progression, and if your only interest is whether or not your gear numbers are raising, I will still stand by it - XIV is not going to be your game ever.

CT is casual content not raid content. All CT does is make raiding a near pointless venture just like it was pre 2.2

First patch to add an alternative? Since it now appears you also have goldfish memory lets think back to Coil 1-5... drops ilvl 90 gear.What did myth (the group currency) give? Oh right ilvl 90 gear.

[Garlyle]

CT is casual content not raid content. All CT does is make raiding a near pointless venture just like it was pre 2.2

Are you raiding for the gear/progression, or for the difficulty?

If to you, raiding means getting onto the best gear you can get, you now have CT2 as an additional piece of content to undertake each week.
If to you, raiding is about tackling a challenge, you have Savage Coil as a challenge to face down, regardless of whether it "takes the same attempt slot" as existant content or not.

Frankly, whichever definition you take, there you are.

If you're dissatisfied that Savage Coil doesn't give you new gear in return for its challenge that's a completely different argument.

First patch to add an alternative? Since it now appears you also have goldfish memory lets think back to Coil 1-5... drops ilvl 90 gear.What did myth (the group currency) give? Oh right ilvl 90 gear.

2.0 can't be counted as patch and myth as an alternative was present immediately, not added in a patch. If you're going to try to get me on a technicality, here's one right back.

And now if you'll excuse me, sleep calls.

[Zarzak]

Are you raiding for the gear/progression, or for the difficulty?

If to you, raiding means getting onto the best gear you can get, you now have CT2 as an additional piece of content to undertake each week.
If to you, raiding is about tackling a challenge, you have Savage Coil as a challenge to face down, regardless of whether it "takes the same attempt slot" as existant content or not.

Frankly, whichever definition you take, there you are.

If you're dissatisfied that Savage Coil doesn't give you new gear in return for its challenge that's a completely different argument.

2.0 can't be counted as patch and myth as an alternative was present immediately, not added in a patch. If you're going to try to get me on a technicality, here's one right back.

That is EXACTLY the point. we still after almost a year only have FOUR relevant raid targets per week. Savage did nothing to change that.

If you want to throw out technicalities it was patch 2.0 The original game came out years ago.

[jwilliams133]

So "paying customers are free to make suggestions so long as no one changes anything." Gotcha

I don't even like coil, and I still think it is too much the focus for high end content. Too much of progression and highest rewards is focused on this tiny series of raids. I'd feel a lot better if said high end content was not just in hard coil, but hard hunts, fates, hests, crafting. Spread the difficulty, and the bounty that comes in clearing it, to other aspects of the game.

I'm not saying I completely disagree with you; I actually partially agree. More difficultly overall would likely cause a sub loss on SE's part, and at the end of the day, Square Enix is a business (FFXIV is their cash cow atm). Making decisions based on opinions of the upper 1-2% would result in a revenue loss, and the last time I checked, Squeenix is not a 501(c)(3). They are making sure the player-base is happy overall, and overtly difficult content isn't applicable to most.

[Garlyle]

That is EXACTLY the point. we still after almost a year only have FOUR relevant raid targets per week. Savage did nothing to change that.

I'll be frank - that's going to happen with raids. In everything. That's the way bleeding edge top of the pile content works. If we're going to define raiding by difficulty, which I'm going to assume based on the refusal of Syrcus Tower, then there's always only going to be a small amount of that content, and there will always be players up there, because the moment something new comes along ready for them, the stuff below is obsolete. Whether that takes the form of four smaller 8-man trials or one long 24-man it won't change the fact that "well I've done that ultimate challenge, now what am I supposed to do?"

I said it in the first place - so long as XIV is not a game where efforts are designed to take years to complete, there will always be that crowd - and that crowd will always be dissatisfied, because the bleeding edge of challenge will only ever be a small fraction of content. And XIV is not designed to be that game, and I'm pretty sure it never will be.