DPS meters and why they're necessary

[Malric]

That's not true. DF has minimum ilvl requirements, and in some cases we can be confident that the ilvl required by DF is actually higher than what's required to clear the content.

Agreed. Best exemple I can think of is Titan Extreme. I really don't see a full group of i67 killing him, which is the requirement for him.

@Dwill - Since you're such a fan of proof. How about proof you don't even read before you reply. You replied in automatic agreement to a statement then totally disagreed with it.

Viridiana said she thinks the DF requirement is higher than what's actually needed and you agreed by saying in your example it's not high enough.

Yet both say iLvL don't matter.

We may not agree on the end results of parsers effects on the game but at least I read your comments before replying to them.

You just banter and carry on the same arguments regardless if they even apply to my views.

[Malric]

Alright I'm done here. These forum moderators don't do their jobs so I will leave here. I'll make my complaint with SE about these forums and be done with them for good!

I answer this question below and I get flagged and a warning my post is off topic and violates the user agreement!

What class and server did you play in Aion? What year did you quit?

This entire topic violates the user agreement!

Advocating "third party software" is in itself a bannable offense in this game.
Using it is a bannable offense.

Yet people in this forum advocate parsers, admit they use parsers and use profanity (another violation) doing so!

I'm the only one here even advocating the rules in this game!

and I'm flagged for being "off topic" because I answered a question...

[Prohibited]

I wish we had DPS meters. I would love to see how much dps I'm doing and it makes me look for ways to improve. Thats it do me in WoW anyways.

[NoctisUmbra]

This entire topic violates the user agreement!

This thread is about DPS Meters, and the community discussing their opinions on it's inclusion/exclusion plans for FFXIV. DPS Meters are present in other MMOs. Successful ones even. The discussion here would be valuable feedback for the devs, and great insight into where the playerbase stands. Sure, the forums don't necessarily represent the majority/minority, but it is one of their primary tools for gauging player stances.

The inclusion of parsers in this discussion is only natural. Parsers aren't a giant elephant we're all going to pretend doesn't exist, and neither will the devs. Is it currently against the ToS to utilize 3rd party software? Yes. Has Yoshi-P suggested that he knows players use parsers and that they should simply keep this act to themselves? Also yes.

Whether you like it or not, quite a lot of the playerbase uses parsers. It's no mystery. The people who get banned for it? They're the ones who openly talk about using one (often as a basis for harassing another player about their numbers, or boasting about their own - two acts that are forefront in anti-parser/DPS meter arguments). The vast amount of players who parse and do no such thing, go entirely unnoticed. Doesn't necessarily mean they aren't using the information they gain from their parsers; they just aren't being abrasive/blunt about it.

Here's some more food for thought - a lot of arguments that occur when someone in the party is holding back DPS and someone with a parser points it out come with a pattern in my experience:

• The DPS in question often times does not believe/think they are doing bad DPS. They believe they're doing just fine. "They've been clearing content so far."
• The DPS in question often times does not make use of a parser themselves, and has no idea how much they are actually doing. They "feel" they're doing ok.

If DPS Meters were available officially to every player, it would be no mystery - even to the player themselves - how much they were doing. They could act as a proactive tool for said players rather than provoke reactive actions when someone else who secretly parses confronts them.

It's human nature - nobody likes to be called out. Some take it better than others. Some dish out the criticism better than others. It's never a particularly fun thing for the person receiving though. However, if you play with friends/strangers/whatever and the in-game official DPS Meter shows that you're doing far less DPS than this other person playing the same job as you, then you receive direct, unbiased feedback from the game itself rather than being confronted, and you are naturally motivated to do better like in any other game you would play.

I say give everyone access, by default in their HUD, a tool that gives DPS feedback. At least one that shows the player's DPS only. However, also allow the use of an add-on that opens it up to the entire party. If the game isn't going to integrate DPS walls into it's progression design to gate players by skill, then this is the least they can do.

Is harassment of underperforming players at endgame a problem? Yes.
Is the high population of underperforming players at endgame simply getting carried a problem. Yes.

Solving one and outright ignoring the other is not a solution.

[Pooky_Pasha]

snip

Well, I hate to break it to you, but it's your own fault. The post you quoted and answered is 191. This first post of yours is 160. The second one is post 166. You brought up your awesomeness from other games way before the question was asked, and the only reason the question was asked was because you brought up how awesome you were at those games. You have no one to blame but yourself for that. Also, please show me where advocating "third party software" is a bannable offense...

I know you assume but just FYI...
I've never been kicked out of a party for bad DPS or any other reason.

Even in WoW and Aion when people posted DPS meters I was always high on them and often on top.

I'm sorry you lack the skills to be good at a game without addons.

However I've been good at games since the Atari and have topped MMO's since they were text based MUDs.

Like I said personally I think people that need them are just weak and lack basic skills to self evaluate so they need something to do it for them.

Sorry if that hurts your e-peen but it don't change that SE agrees more with my stance than yours.

I've played almost every major MMO launched in the past 20 years.
I was topping MMOs when they were text based, ran the most successful raiding guild in WoW on Shadowsong for 3 years which I built. Pulled server firsts that unlocked content for our faction and finished end game that 90% of our faction couldn't even put together a group to walk into.

I did this without DPS meters...

I'm sorry you need addons to do what I've been doing since before DPS meters existed.

And this beauty of a post sums up the entirety of your argument: hot air with no solid substance to back it up.

Oh please do, also bring up how when the game began there were no meters and it rose to be the most successful MMO in history.

How the increasing people leaving and the decline in end game play pretty
much started once DPS meters dominated the game.

How this caused them to constantly change character classes costing them millions in development and led to them removing choice from character design to reduce the number of people that can't hack it in end game play.

How since then, the game has lost over 80% of it's world players outside China and they couldn't maintain their game without bots/gold farmers.

How the game is turning cash shop in desperation, allowing people to buy level cap and allowing those left to multibox 10+ accounts to keep enough subs to stay in business.

[Malric]

This thread is about DPS Meters, and the community discussing their opinions on it's inclusion/exclusion plans for FFXIV... The discussion here would be valuable feedback for the devs, and great insight into where the playerbase stands...

Under this stance one could argue that the topic could be suggestions forums

Not here

If a forum moderator is going to be so anal as to flag me for answering a question on a ridiculous technicality then I fail to see how far more blatant rules violations are ignored such as:

*Advocating the use of 3rd party software
*Admitting use of 3rd party software
*Profanity which violates the entire forum rules and has no justification

Yet I'm flagged for answering a question that someone was using to bait me

I am not continuing an argument on the subject of their use in game

I'm only even still here as I am waiting for a response to my complaint

Breaking rules isn't okay because you don't agree

[Malric]

Well, I hate to break it to you, but it's your own fault. The post you quoted and answered is 191. This first post of yours is 160. The second one is post 166. You brought up your awesomeness from other games way before the question was asked, and the only reason the question was asked was because you brought up how awesome you were at those games.

Actually, my first post was #144 and I only brought up other games at all in response to being told not only were they necessary, but the reference to all these other games they are in and how accepted they are and how the most commercially successful game (a wow ref) feels about them.

Read the entire conversation, not pick and choose the parts you like.

My statement was simple, they weren't "Needed" there and are not "Needed" here.

[Malric]

Also, please show me where advocating "third party software" is a bannable offense...

In post 145 I actually posted a link to a discussion on this manner in which a GM even states so.
If you know how to use google... there are MANY such things you can find on this.
If it will make you feel better I can make a ticket and show you the response.
Or better yet, try it, and please share (screenshot) your results.

I'd LOVE to see you prove my point!

[Pooky_Pasha]

Actually, my first post was #144 and I only brought up other games at all in response to being told not only were they necessary, but the reference to all these other games they are in and how accepted they are and how the most commercially successful game (a wow ref) feels about them.

Read the entire conversation, not pick and choose the parts you like.

My statement was simple, they weren't "Needed" there and are not "Needed" here.

I've read every post of this thread while eating popcorn. It's hilarious. You blamed the moderators who "don't do their jobs" because you got flagged for a forum violation (so they did do their job). Bringing up whatever history you had in other games with fantastical stories is on you, and I'm guessing that's why you were flagged. The mods don't like that. It's entirely your fault you were flagged. Also, discussing actions taken by moderators is a forum violation as well.

In post 145 I actually posted a link to a discussion on this manner in which a GM even states so.
If you know how to use google... there are MANY such things you can find on this.
If it will make you feel better I can make a ticket and show you the response.
Or better yet, try it, and please share (screenshot) your results.

I'd LOVE to see you prove my point!

I read post 144 the day it was posted, as well as that reddit thread long ago when it was posted, and both of them deal with USAGE, not ADVOCATING. Usage and advocating are in no way the same thing. This thread is not a violation of forum rules as you seem to think for whatever reason. How you got that idea, who knows.

[Exstal]

You can argue it semantically all you want. So give up while you're behind.