The amount of things endgame enemies are immune to is TOO HIGH!

[Ehayte]

Uhhh...

Do you guys honestly think that Twintania got to where she is today by being a weak little birdy that could be silenced or stunned?

NO - She worked HARD with her Shape-Ups on, a pink sports bra, and those p90x tapes to become immune to those things!

Seriously though, bosses are bad-asses because they can't be jerked around by your puny little Sleep spell, they laugh at your attempts to disable them because you are weak and they are strong.

The only thing you would be adding to an end-game encounter with status effects (like Virus, remember Virus chains?) is another scripted element (use slow at 44% exactly because he will do 6 auto-attacks that need to be slowed, use Heavy at 70% before the phase change so the tank can kite the mob and we can heal him before the big AE). AND if you could break the encounter with them, how would that be fun for you? They use some status effects in raids now, like getting heavy or bind on the Renaulds in T7, blinding certain bosses, slowing down the Dreadknights in T5, etc.

Lore-wise, it makes sense they are immune. Mechanics-wise, I think it would be much less fun if they weren't immune.

[Renik]

snip

I agree with you in most things, i think coil and dungeon bosses are fun and they work fine right now, unfortunately i don't have the time to make or be part of a static and my only way to enjoy this content is by pugs, my major gripe is with primal fights which are hallways battles, it's the only endgame content i can play with my play times, but i don't enjoy it at all because it's mindless dance with no place for improvisation or strategy, those fights need a rework on debuff resistances and mechanics, they need true balance and less dance.

Of course i have more gripes with the game but they don't belong to this thread and i have already gone too offtopic with this.

PS: don't look at the times on my sig, those are not accurate.

edit:

The only thing you would be adding to an end-game encounter with status effects (like Virus, remember Virus chains?) is another scripted element (use slow at 44% exactly because he will do 6 auto-attacks that need to be slowed, use Heavy at 70% before the phase change so the tank can kite the mob and we can heal him before the big AE). AND if you could break the encounter with them, how would that be fun for you?.

That's awesome, vanquish your enemies with strategy, that's the essence of a rpg. not avoiding red circles or dancing, they abuse of insta kill and made up mechanics instead of designing fights with the player capabilities in mind.

[Dano]

Uhhh...

Do you guys honestly think that Twintania got to where she is today by being a weak little birdy that could be silenced or stunned?

NO - She worked HARD with her Shape-Ups on, a pink sports bra, and those p90x tapes to become immune to those things!

does she even lift?!

[Tupsi]

No. Definitely not.

Yes, definitely yes. We need more strategy and options. Remember when Black Mage in Final Fantasy had more than 2 actual elements for damage? And enemies either liked/hated a particular element including elemental debuffs? I don't want to hear: "But then we will only take Black Mages to content!" When people already take only x to content AS OF TODAY and people are still doing stuff perfectly fine.

Ifrit Hard mode is the perfect example as to why it's good tougher bosses resists everything.

[Seaku]

Snip

Hmm, well coil does have quite a lot of those points Ehayte's talking about with virus to survive, or foes to strategically burn part of an encounter away. The primals don't have much of that I'll admit, some do, some don't. Titan hm and ex when they were relavant did have that but people were dying to the 'dance' as you put it as he had the most punishing one. I guess SE could improve on some of the primal mechanics to include the use of more varied status effects though at least for Ramuh, I don't think they will. Maybe when shiva comes round? I first want to see what they do with the change of some classes lesser used abilities, it might fit more into the paradym you're looking for. (I'm guessing feint, tri-disaster, one-ilm punch will change.)

We used to use a strategy on T4 which was get the tank to kite some of the mobs in one of the phases debuffing them while we focused on a dread. Meant the healers had to do less or could dps.

[ApolloGenX]

There were plenty of debuffs that were used on bosses in EQ... there were also special low resist "Lure" spells. It wasn't game breaking.... it just made classes useful. Tash for Encs... classes had their own debuffs for their abilities. It just made you think a little bit about what you were doing. There's nothing wrong with adding a little complexity to rotations. Partial slow worked on bosses... and some bosses cleansed debuffs at a certain point and they had to be re-applied, requiring agro management.

This is nothing new.

In fact, pulling was SO much more strategic in that game- we actually had a "pull team". Of course it kind of moved from monks to rangers once they could weapon shield.

[Doki]

Ifrit Hard mode is the perfect example as to why it's good tougher bosses resists everything.

Actually Ifrit Hard mode has BUILDING resistance that resets over time. You can stun eruptions making the fight much easier. You will be forced to dodge a single eruption while waiting on stun immunity to reset. So, yeah, you chose a poor example. That fight is actually more in line with what I am saying SHOULD be the norm. You could quickly waste all your stuns on conflags and get stuck waiting on immunity to wear off and have to dodge more eruptions which wastes more time, or you could use them on eruptions only which makes the fight a lot easier on people. It's FLEXIBLE, and your skills have a point. Likewise, blind works the same way in the Titan fight. If you blind him just before table flips, he will very often miss the tank entirely, but he does build up temp immunity....However both of these encounters are far from endgame, and are one of the last places you can even use these skills as the EX primals have full immunity.

[Tupsi]

Actually Ifrit Hard mode has BUILDING resistance

This was added in a later update which also affects players. He, like a few others, didn't build resistance and you were able to stun lock eruptions and plumes if you so felt like it and SE changed it because of how silly it was for something "end-game" to be like that - Hence it's the perfect example.

They even nerfed Virus in the sense you could no longer rotate it fully due to hindering many end-game bosses a bit too effectively. So no, not a poor example, sorry - You can't ignore why they made a change to stuff like that, it's a pretty important factor in this whole 'debate'.

[Morningstar1337]

I will agree the following statuses are kind of pointless: sleep, blind, and pacify.
Those ones don't work on anything useful.

Finally, even if you disagree with me with the debuffs some buffs still should be used strategically; mantra, sacred soil, swiftcast, any defensive CD, etc.

Sleeps is useful for giving someone the slip, FATEs and open world objectives and I'm pretty sure Dungeon Speedruns.

[Souljacker]

Sleeps is useful for giving someone the slip, FATEs and open world objectives and I'm pretty sure Dungeon Speedruns.

No, because you can't even use teleport when engaged with a monster now. Sometimes I will use it in a dungeon to sleep an add but most of the time you are muscling through content anyway so... no.

Also, isn't the point of dungeon speedruns to kill the mobs as fast as possible with AoE - not sleep and kill them one at a time? You might be thinking of manaburn parties in XI, but I have yet to see something like that here.