Ishgard' s archbisschop

[Morningstar1337]

What if each element of the Twelve represents part of a Primal? The dual aspects of each element being the astral/umbral representations of the primal that corresponds to that element.

ex.) Menphina could be the astral version of Shiva and Halone is the Umbral version of Shiva.

The names Menphina and Halone would then be used to refer to the astral and umbral natures of a single Primal.

And on a further idea that maybe Menphina and Halone were both, long ago, two separate people who the crystal(s) could have chose to manifest as on single being for whoever knows why.

So you're saying is that the Primals are fusions of 2 of the 12?

That still dosn't explain Odin and Bahamut but hey they're called "Elder Primals" so maybe those two are eldritch beings that we are incapable of perceiving the origins. maybe they are older than Hydaelyn, Zodiark and Eorzea itself.

[Saikou]

I'd like to see us come back to Odin, who he was, who Urth was, the unnamed people he refers to when you fight him, etc... Anyway, off topic.

Everyone assumes that the Archbishop is no good. That Ishgard is gonna be the new hub, the new Rev Toll. That the story will unfold similarly to the story of FFXI's Jeuno: Mysterious leader who is initially very generous to the player turns out to be the instigator of so many bad things. I don't see it going that way. I think it's gonna be more like if Shamonde ruled San d'Oria.Those guys in the Templar armor as his Temple Knights... I got some serious Sandy vibes in that scene. Remember, Windy called for aid. And Sandy answered. OK, enough nostalgia. I don't think he's evil. Just very zealous and single-minded in his dedication to total victory over the Dravanian hordes. Might he be a bit crazy by our standards and certainly stingy in not aiding the allies that Ishgard had gathered in The Autumn War.

[Xmbei]

You know... There is one very important question and curiosity, that I have yet to be asked or answered... Ever since 1.0 the Empire has ignored Ishgard... They attacked the other city-states or annexed them... But the Whole of Ishgard and Coerthas has been entirely ignored by the Empire and it is in between Mor Dhona, Uldah and LL from garlamald... I wonder why that is? And why the gates have been shut to even Ishgardians outside of Ishgard since 1.0 per the NPC's. I smell something sinister there.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Part of that may be not only the harsh conditions, but also because Ishgard is both pretty far north (with currently only Sharlayan and Dravania beyond it) and it's rather well inland. Ala Mhigo, being south of Garlemald, and the most outland of Eorzea was kind of an easy target, but with 2 of the 3 big city states standing as the "blockade"to the rest of Eorzea (which makes me wonder how they got a Castrum on Vylbrand) sitting right there to the west, and mountainous, possibly uninhabitable/unusable mountains north of Gridania, there'd be no way to reach Ishgard other than airships. . . then they'd have both Ishgard AND Dravanians/dragons to deal with.

[Xmbei]

In 1.0 the battle of silvertear they flew over Ishgard to The Falls before the whole fleet was disposed of. Then in the end of 1.0 they flew over ishgard again and set up bases everywhere else but ignored ishgard. If the wanted full control of Eorzea its bad idea to just ignore the city state in the middle of it all, unless there is some reason yet to be given to us the players.

[evilsohn]

well, Ishgard wasn't willing to help the other three city states against The Empire at the end of 2.0 either, right?

The way they set up the Ishgardians and their pope thus far I'd actually be disappointed if they weren't bad guys one way or the other.

About Shiva, Halone and not every Primal fitting one of the Twelve... Humans tend to revere stuffs they can't understand with gods so when Shiva showed up they might have thought her a goddess and called her Halone. That wouldn't necessarily mean that the primals are all part of the twelve, nor that every god of the twelve has to be a primal.

Also, if I remember correctly Lahabret (?was that his name - I'm talking of the ascian that took control over Thancred) draws a comparison between the Beast-tribes worshipping the Primals and us worshipping the twelve.

I'm really looking forward as to how the story will further unfold

[Catapult]

other than the heretics seen held in the cells under Whitebrim Front (and those unfortunates ramble about the Dravanian Horde, ala the dragons, not Shiva).

Now this is an excellent point. The heretics certainly exhibit the traits typical of the heavily-tempered.
Thus far we have only seen symptoms of the lightly-tempered amongst Ishgardian behaviour, which is difficult to distinguish from conventional zealotry. Could this be due to remaining outside the Gates of Judgement?

I had an earlier theory that thought Shiva may be the primal of the dragons. That's still plausible, though I still think her being summoned as Halone is more probable, playing the long-term game with the Holy See as discussed by others.

[Icecylee]

Why in the world would the garleans attack Ishgard? They're already fighting off three city states and not doing so hot as is - if the ishgardians are content to stand aside, why add a fourth to the mix before you're done with the first three? That, and all winning control over ishgard gets you is a front row seat against the ongoing war against the dragons. Sounds like a bad deal all around to me. >_>

[Xmbei]

Empires opinion is win by superior fire power which they had over all of Eorzea prior to primals unleashed! And ala mhigo was stronger than ishgard! In all city states of Eorzea. Plus The Empire conquered the rest of the known world in no time at all so what is some backwater place as Eorzea to them?

[Kyan]

Now this is an excellent point. The heretics certainly exhibit the traits typical of the heavily-tempered.

My only concern there is that, many sources of dialogue suggest that people are behaving that way because of excessive torture. Some of them may be heretics, some may just be saying anything at all because they've been broken physically and mentally.