All this talk about community...

[ApolloGenX]

Communities do evolve as a byproduct of game design. You can look at different types of games to see how the community evolved around the game design.

Theme park games do not encourage the strongest communities... however they do present lower barriers of entry to new players.

[Sadana]

Sorry for my earlier snark. The hormones be crazy today, so I should probably just stop typing after this... D: But yeah, having a good group of friends to do things with really does make everything much more tolerable and enjoyable. And while I do tend to suggest that as well (find friends/people of like mind, etc), it's not always the easiest of things to do. DF does not help this as if you do run across someone you really like, there is a good chance they won't be on your server. :/



Those "ancient" games have done plenty of things right. Why not implement things that have worked in the past?

Hey, no worries. I totally understand. <3

A FFXI vet friend of mine lays much of the blame for lack of community on the DF. Is this true or not? I didn't play so I can only guess. I think strongly though that the game (and community) is what you make it.
As far as 'why not implement things that have worked in the past'... because it is not what makes the most money. ^^; On many other threads about this, some folks who loved the culture of FFXI or other 'ancient' games have admitted that real life does not permit them the time to put into those long grinds anymore. The need for instant gratification IS strong now, smart companies give people what they want, the downside is the effect it has on 'community'.

[OSUBuckeye4]

Communities do evolve as a byproduct of game design. You can look at different types of games to see how the community evolved around the game design.

Theme park games do not encourage the strongest communities... however they do present lower barriers of entry to new players.

I guess you're right.

I would just like to see content that got an entire server, or an entire Grand Company, or entire Free Companies working towards singular goals.

Don't make it mandatory so that you isolate the people who enjoy the theme park nautre of the game, but provide it as something for the rest of us to do when we want to get off that vertical progression treadmill from time to time.

I can only run DF Expert so many times with my friends before it gets incredibly boring.


What I'm saying is... I find myself sitting around with millions of gil and nothing to spend it on (God willing, hopefully the Golden Saucer helps with this). It would be fun to be able to contribute to my Grand Company vault and try to top other Grand Companies bankrolls. Or maybe, like systems where FC's could accept jobs and you rush against another FC to complete the job before the other? Or a Grand Company asks that it's members submit 100,000 of a certain item... and then you have something that people who are capped out and looking for something to do, can do. If you hit the max then you win a buff for everyone who is aligned with your GC for a week.


And you know... maybe the game never does anything like that, I just think that it would go a long way towards retaining players if they implemented something of that sort. I also think that the system is set up (servers, Grand and Free Companies) to support it.

And again, I'm not asking for the entire nature of the game to shift. I'm asking more for some mini-games to be added into the mix. Another poster did say, "give them time". I am... but, why not vent about it in the meantime and hope a developer sees it and maybe pushes some of these things a bit higher in the priority list if enough people agree?

[Sadana]

you get your group of 7 to run your static of the same content, and then you carve out your own little niche.

But see... this game does not have to be played that way! I've seen many players complain of how bored they are or how painful it is to dungeon with trolls and they all seem to focus on 'endgame' and statics. :/ My FC focuses on just enjoying the game, whether it's working on crafts, gathering, parkour, making gil, chatting it up about random things, telling everyone that the sunset in Costa is particularly spectacular, or just picking a goal and working towards that. I acknowledge that everyone plays the game differently and I'm sure many just love blasting through endgame and achieving the awesome gear... but it seems so many who focus on just that wind up so unhappy so quickly.

[Clavaat]

I just think it would be cool if there were things that FC's and maybe even servers themselves could work towards. That feeling of contributing to a greater cause is what I think is missing from a lot of people's lives when it comes to this game. Everything in the game is designed in such a small pack or lone wolf mentality... you get your group of 7 to run your static of the same content, and then you carve out your own little niche.

Like I said before, it's easy to get into that rhythm, but if you try to be a little creative and take the initiative to make more inclusive events, you'll have a better time. If you don't want to run dungeons and such solo, then you set up the run ahead of time, static or no. If you don't like Atma farming, make a PT of LS/FC-mates. You can make things a group effort that are normally soloable, if for no other reason than it is more fun with more people.

If your FC or LS won't make the effort, be a part of the change. Either create your own, or find one that will actually promote comradery.

[PixelPirate]

The fact that you have a choice to do everything on your own IS in iteself poor game design, in a MMORPG.

Oh yes, now I remember. Which game was it that forced us to group in order to do absolutely anything? Let me see here... it's coming to me. FINAL FANTASY XI!!! OMG I caught up with you, this game isn't like FFXI. lol Dood, the freedom to choose is exactly what makes this game worth playing.

[OSUBuckeye4]

Oh yes, now I remember. Which game was it that forced us to group in order to do absolutely anything? Let me see here... it's coming to me. FINAL FANTASY XI!!! OMG I caught up with you, this game isn't like FFXI. lol Dood, the freedom to choose is exactly what makes this game worth playing.

I've never played FF11!

Honestly, with the reaction I get whenever I point out an area of improvement though, I'm really tempted to just jump over to FFXI and see what it is all about.

Seems like any time I say something that isn't, "this game is amazing!" people tell me to go back to FF11, even though I've never had an account or played a second of that game.

I really don't get it. I'm not asking for everything to be group based... I'm asking for some mini-games be added in that gives the game more of a community feel. Right now, there's nothing that really exists along those lines.


Sorry, I mispoke, there is one thing that I do think needs to be made more group-based, and that is crafting. It is a huge problem that everyone can craft everything if they sink enough hours into it. That's the one area where I think SE needs to shift course. You shouldn't be able to gather every HQ mat and make every HQ craftable item in the game, that's a terrible model for an in-game economy. Being a jack of all trades is fine, being a master of everything is just stupid.

[Clavaat]

I'm not asking for everything to be group based... I'm asking for some mini-games be added in that gives the game more of a community feel. Right now, there's nothing that really exists along those lines.

I misunderstood that until the post you made that actually showed up when I posted mine haha. My point still stands, you can make those kinds of things happen. People set up raffles and gambling events all the time. That and chocobo races, mazes, scavenger hunts, etc. Yes, it would be nice if the game provided more options for this, and I believe they are (look at Hunts). They made the FC Rankings on the Lodestone, which admittedly, is not very helpful considering it's about GC Points, but it's still something.

As far as FFXI goes, it's not really like it used to be, which is what people are normally referring to. It's actually a lot like FFXIV now, sans queues, so everything takes waaaaay longer.

[Xystic]

And no one gets to the real root of the problem.

The real problem with this game is that there is little to nothing for the community to band together and do. It's not a toxic community, there is no community.

There are various types of communities and varying amounts of those types of communities. There are plenty of in game things and designs that benefit players from banding together.

CRAFTING

When everyone can do everything, there is no need to ever forge a community.

People believe that because SE allows one toon to learn all crafts, that everyone indeed at this time must be maxed on all professions, which is false.

Many other MMOs made it slightly more tedious for additional crafting professions but even then everyone still had the option to learn all professions. In World of Warcraft, although each toon was limited to 2 crafts, it did not limit your account to 2 crafts. You could create a new toon and learn 2 new sets of professions.

What the average person fails to see is that many of us have multiple max levels in DoW or DoM. Meaning if these max levels were different toons for each class and 2 professions were allowed per each toon, many of us would still have access to most if not all professions. Meaning with or without putting all professions in one toon would make little to no difference. The only difference is that its MUCH MORE easier to access both crafting professions and DoW/DoM.

In most MMORPG's, if you want to tackle end-game crafting, you're forced to interact with others because they have access to certain crafting trees that you can't access.

You can simply just make a new toon to access such trees.

Also you need to understand that forcing people to interact generates "Toxic" communities because your forcing people of varying ideas and thoughts that conflict all under one roof. I think you need to learn a bit more about MMO communities do's and don'ts.

FREE COMPANIES

FC's are kind of a joke now that most FC's have their house and have pimped it out... there is nothing for FC's to do together, outside of garden... but, that takes what? One cilck an hour to fertilize crops?

You contradict yourself rather quickly. Read your above statement and than read your below statement.

About the only thing I can do to help my FC... is kill time gathering materials for their crafts for free. That, and joining up and running roulette with others who need their daily bonus.

Isn't this what FC's are precisely for?

LACK OF CHALLENGING OPEN WORLD CONTENT

The open-world in this game is a joke. I can eat lunch while groups of lvl 45-50 mobs hack away at me, and not die.

Outside of Behemoth and Odin... which spawn infrequently and at rather random intervals... there is really nothing for the community to do in the open world. I never played FF11, so this isn't a "bring back notorious monsters and hamlet defense" ralying cry.

I don't care what SE does, they need to do something that allows the community to interact together in the open world.

Open world content needs to be carefully designed. Rather than you don't care how they do it, you need to suggest ideas on how to do it without requiring major changes in core game designs or having it being abused.

Last I recall, open world content like the world dragons in WoW, were cool but generated a ton of headaches. Guild A interfering with Guild B or Opposing Faction rushing in during encounters or deciding loot share out between Guilds A, B, C and D. The list just goes on and on. In MMOs, when you want something, discuss it out, not beg/whine for it~

SUMMARY

Honestly, when was the last time in this game that you were forced to work with someone else towards anything other than end-game dungeon progression?

Yesterday, when we were trying to figure out how to place the items in our yard properly so we could jump to the balcony. Took some gil and etc but we did it.

Community Events like the one with the egg hats/rings and the bitter chocolates were a step in the right direction... those lasted such a short time though, and when you were done, you were right back to the drawing board looking for something to do.

Somewhat good idea that backfired for some. I do recall many people having a very difficult time finding people for these events. Especially during the slow hours. I personally would have implemented a NPC that assists you for a price if you can't find anyone to help. Therefore, players continue to have the option to choose what they want to do solo or with people.

[Vahlnir]

-snip-

I haven't played it for about 6 years, but around the time I quit the game began to change. If you would try it now it isn't anywhere near the game it was, just as I was told by players in-game in the time I played. From what I have read and heard it's an entirely different game now, so the whole "go back to XI" thing is irrelevant anyway. While I find myself agreeing with you on a couple things, the game is entirely what people make of it. The freedom of choice in this game is a good thing, though it isn't always perfect, which comes back to the game being what people make of it.