NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

[Legendlives]

As for this topic, it's just a case of different understanding about what was said on Rogue regarding Thief. I just think that it's pointless to explain how "Rogue are like Thieves but not named Thieves because of Lore" if they're already planned to be two different things.

Its not pointless cause thats the case, Rogues are thief cause of lore. Can that change, sure, will it, to be honest i just dont think so. I think people are going to need to get use to the fact that this is what SE wants to do.

For the record, i want a Thief job, been dieing to play a duel wielding class for this game since release and it sucks that i'll be ninja's, but i'll live with it for now.

[Legendlives]

Just a few posts up I already explained what I took from the E3 interview. If you think differently about that, I don't mind a single bit. However I personally do not see any confirmation as to if there will or won't be a Thief Job in the game.

So what your saying is you just dont buy what the developer of the game is saying. That you know better then him? That he lied to us?

He said it, no matter what your opinion of it is, he SAID it. He words, they are fact now, not just an opinion, FACT.

As it stands right now, after he said it at E3, Rogues are thief's cause of Lore.

Does that suck, IMHO yes.

[LoLo]

If possible someone who is willing to engage in actual conversation explain what the dex trait datamine information mean when it comes to additional classes possibly being branched off from Rogue?

Legend no I am saying:

That interview can be interpreted any way to support any argument because it was:
1. vague.
2. had to be translated LIVE and things can be lost in translation.
3. Didn't make any logical sense because there are Pirates, prostitutes, and killers roaming around with permits to do things that make stealing look like child's play and would be socially acceptable in Limsa just by paying attention to the CS for the main storyline.
(this is my person take on the interview, if you think differently, good job)

I'll wait for more information to be release.

A good example of what makes me think that is the fact that there used to be a user on this forums that did live translations. After he did the live translations he would revised the translation because some information was missed while translating live. Its totally possible that things were missed or that a better word describing what Yoshi P said could have been used to better understand what he means.

Also from that same interview if we want to go word from word. It said that Rogues EVOLVED from Thieves. Not Rogues are Thieves.

[Exstal]

If possible someone who is willing to engage in actual conversation explain what the dex trait datamine information mean when it comes to additional classes possibly being branched off from Rogue?

I don't think it'll come off Rogue because it's low level traits (8/12/16?) as jobs don't start until 30. We just assumed that it'll pertain to Rogue because of all the other datamined skills that are run speed/jump landing/poisons. It could very easily be the traits for Musketeer but it's a little less likely given that we haven't found any other traits that would go to MSK.

If anything it could be like how ACN is now. All traits are INT+ but SCH is a healer with doesn't get anything from INT.

[Gilraen]

It said that Rogues EVOLVED from Thieves. Not Rogues are Thieves.

Seeing as we're arguing semantics now, you do realize that the bolded part suggests rogues are better than thieves as that's how evolution works. Why would a Job be worse than the class it's based on? Just saying.

[Velhart]

Seeing as we're arguing semantics now, you do realize that the bolded part suggests rogues are better than thieves as that's how evolution works. Why would a Job be worse than the class it's based on? Just saying.

What I got from it was that the abilities rogues have derive from days when they were thieves/bandits. While they stopped committing crimes, they still use their skills in the benefit of the guild/nation they represent, as such the Rogue. Its always possible that Thief can be a job in the future where they go back to the days of fighting dirty or some secret techniques that were forgotten over the years when they transitioned to Rogue. Don't know, the lore team seems pretty clever at fitting anything in.

[LoLo]

Seeing as we're arguing semantics now, you do realize that the bolded part suggests rogues are better than thieves as that's how evolution works. Why would a Job be worse than the class it's based on? Just saying.

Actually no, Archers used to be Bards but now that type of combat is pretty much gone until you find a old Bard who decides to teach you the way of the Bard. PUGs used to know the way of the Monks. You can say the same about all of the current jobs. No where is it said that a Thief is worse than a Rogue lol. But I think at this point telling you this is pointless.

[Malakhim]

Actually no, Archers used to be Bards but now that type of combat is pretty much gone until you find a old Bard who decides to teach you the way of the Bard. PUGs used to know the way of the Monks. You can say the same about all of the current jobs. No where is it said that a Thief is worse than a Rogue lol. But I think at this point telling you this is pointless.

Pugilists didn't know the way of the monks. If anything can be established about pugilists, it's that they are prize fist-fighters. Monks are an order of warriors out of Ala Mihgo. There's no implication of "lost art" there. I haven't gotten far enough in BRD to say the same thing, but by and large, the "lost art" premise is hardly used on many of the jobs.

Furthermore, I don't know what you're getting at that "Thief is/isn't better than Rogue". All Yoshida said was that various thieves came together and for whatever reason decided to abandon the name and form a Rogue's Guild. Again, all that establishes is that very point. There's nothing that says Thief won't happen as a job, and there's nothing that says it will. You're making mountains out of molehills that you haven't even seen yet. Honestly, I would wait until a month or so before 2.4 is out and we have more information to really congratulate/condemn Rogue and Ninja.

[LoLo]

Monk is a lost Art because the Monk that teaches you is one of the few remaining Monks.

Ala Mhigo's Monk temple was burned down by Theodoric, killing trainees, devotees, elders, and even homeless. Very few survived.

The same for BRD in being a lost art not normally practiced.

I said Thief is not worse than Rogue because the person I quoted said that Thief is a downgrade to Rogue. Please read the whole conversation before replying.

[Malakhim]

Monk is a lost Art because the Monk that teaches you is one of the few remaining Monks...

But they aren't a "lost art" of the Pugilists as you posted earlier. The Pugilists guild in Ul'dah have next to nothing in common with the Monks of Ala Mihgo.

I said Thief is not worse than Rogue because the person I quoted said that Thief is a downgrade to Rogue. Please read the whole conversation before replying.

That person's quote was a direct response to your arguing of relatively unimportant semantic differences(incidentally, you misinterpreted his point, by the way). I guess respect points for consistency, but really, that bullish tone of yours still isn't going to be doing you any favors.