Lower the TP cost on Piercing Talon

[Altena]

In its current state, Piercing Talon currently has very little use. There are more negatives then positives to PT which start with-
- Interrupt your combo
- Very taxing on TP
- Currently very weak (even weaker then True Thrust).

While the "positive" is that it is a ranged attack, the utility is definitely outweighed in this instance as rarely (if ever) it is not optimal to use it at all.

Ideally the skill would be useful in situations where you have to run away for a brief moment, or stand at a specific point, away from the boss for some kind of mechanic (which is a very frequent case), however due to the weak potency and huge TP cost, it makes it pretty much pointless to use in fights where TP can become a tad tight.

I don't believe this will unbalance DRG's damage as the increase will be very slight (120 potency attack every now and again more then what they could have done), but at least it would create a purpose at endgame other then pulling mobs when solo'ing quests.

Myself, and many other DRG's from 1.0 probably remember how useful throwing spears were in 1.0, (mainly for TP gain) but as a whole, using them was more "fun" then not using them as it let you be a little more creative on your playstyle.

So please bring back the ability to use these low potency, ranged attacks in end game content.

[Drosser]

Not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but I agree. Piercing Talon really leaves a lot to be desired. I don't even have it bound to a key. It needs something...

[Altaeciana]

I disagree in that Piercing Talon needs any change at all. Before we get into the specifics, my DRG is level 50 at i90. I know exactly what you must be referring to and the specifics of it all.

The specifics are as follows: Melee DPS job. Piercing Talon is more utility based than mainstream. Asking to change Piercing Talon is like asking to make jump-based attacks more mainstream. One could argue that the Dragoon is not a Dragoon due to lack of signature presence as a job in whole.

Enhancing an ability like Piercing Talon on DRG in the manner you are suggesting is like suggesting that MNK gets a ranged attack other than Howling Fist. Or rather, to change Howling Fist to have a 1 second cooldown as Piercing Talon does, and to perhaps cost TP.

Bards should have a melee-based attack that can perhaps be utilitarian or not. Take for example World of Warcraft's Hunter class who has Wingclip (slows target movement by a percentage).

But ultimately, you need to remember one thing. Piercing Talon is not a Dragoon ability. It is carried over from being a Lancer. Piercing Talon is a remnant from being a Lancer who may or may not have had better use of it in a advantageous or utilitarian means.

it makes it pretty much pointless to use in fights where TP can become a tad tight.

Don't forget that a lot of seemingly useful abilities are left behind since they are also "pretty much pointless to use" for other classes/jobs. Archer's Quick Nock and Rain of Death, Arcanist's Miasma II, the plethora of abilities that can be interchanged with Pugilist/Monk's attack combos, etc.

[PArcher]

Piercing Talon has no use not because it is TP expensive...its a ranged attack on a melee. Our job is to stab things, not throw pointy things at things (that's a BRD's job). Talon is mostly a soloing thing, to grab or claim a mob that's just out of reach. In groups, you'd use it to get one little hit in on a boss to keep DPS from hitting 0 during an AoE (or like on Titan EX, that one bomb pattern that sometimes covers him entirely)

Not every ability needs to have a purpose in ALL content.

If there's a DRG skill to look at, however...its Feign. When is the last time anyone used that waste of TP beyond when you got it and saw it sucked?


One last thing...our rotation is long enough as it is...do we really need to make it longer and more complicated?

[PArcher]

Don't forget that a lot of seemingly useful abilities are left behind since they are also "pretty much pointless to use" for other classes/jobs. Archer's Quick Nock

Except Quick Nock is a BRD's best AoE...they just have to be in range for the cone. Yes, someone did the TP calculations and the lesser TP cost on QN is better than the chance for free RoD on Wide Volley (which never procs anyway).

Most BRD just like to be flashy, but less effective (looks at all the BRD who sing Paeon instead of Foe's when AoEing with a BLM)

[Altena]

Not quoting to save character length but:

Just because DRG is a melee, doesn't mean it can't have a single, weak, circumstantial ranged attack.... It's not like you are going to sit at a distance and spam piercing talon all fight...

Throwing spears were pretty iconic in a sense, as was a Chi Blast style ability for MNK (which is currently lacking in this game). I am also in no means trying to discredit ranged classes here, but having a single ranged attack that is usable when DRG cannot get in close, would at least prevent you from standing there looking silly. It also allows you to get a single attack in while closing in on a target if your gap closers are on CD, which is surprisingly often in certain fights. (Levi being one example).

I don't really think MNK truly needs a ranged attack (aside from HF) for the reason that Shoulder Tackle is on such a low CD to begin with. Sure it couldn't hurt to give them a ranged GCD ability, but they are in less of a need then making DRG's talon usable in my opinion. While DRG has 3x gap closers, 2 of them are on extremely long CD's, and quite often Dragonfire is better to hold on to if the fight includes adds.

I am also not saying all abilities "need" a purpose, however reducing the outrageous cost on Talon would be an extremely small change to make a currently near-useless skill usable in end game. Why would anyone in this community be against making a skill a tad more usable? Regardless whether you are a main DRG or not. It should not be a case of "I main xxxx job, DRG shouldn't have xxxx skill because my job doesn't have xxxx".. It's a case of making a skill useful, that would honestly have little impact to anyone else, other then making a DRG a little more interesting to play. I am pretty sick of this cross-job war that continues to go on in relation to this. Classes as a whole are reasonably balanced (each are strong in their own situation). Generally there isn't any class in the game that you just don't use because they are "garbage"..

It also would be nowhere near enough to outbalance classes in its current state - as it stands MNK is a better option for every turn in SCoB when it comes to melee. BRD & SMN's ranged damage is superior (as is BLM's if they are allowed to turret). So truly allowing 1x 120 potency skill more usable really wouldn't hurt the overall balance.

As far as the comment about DRG's "already long rotation"... Sorry but if you are solely sticking to that rotation every fight, all the time, then something is seriously wrong.. "Rotations" in this game are: Keep buffs/DoT's up, and use filler, sticking to that strict 48-string rotation (or whatever it is) is practically impossible.. Talon (if usable) is really just a once-in-a-while filler, when you can't melee the mob due to mechanics. If that is really going to disrupt your "ridiculously-long-rotation" then once again, something is really wrong there. I mean how often do you make the decision to clip Chaos or Phleb, because you know you will have to run away soon? If you aren't sliding away from the rotation to do something as simple as this then your "rotation" truly isn't optimal.

I won't disagree that Feint is completely useless, and is a waste of an ability slot - about as useless as One Ilm Punch (at the moment), and other jobs have similar cases. Working on adjusting those skills would be another topic, however this discussion isn't about any of those skills - it is about Talon. Forget about what other skills are useless, and keep this topic on Talon - as the other skills are honestly irrelevant to this discussion. This topic is about picking one of those less useful skills, simply reducing the TP cost, and making it usable at end game.

[Altena]

An alternative for the naysayers -

Put it on a 90 second CD, 0 TP cost, reduce the potency to 50 or so, but throw an additional effect that reduces the target's physical defence by a certain percentage for 10 seconds. (Basically similar to Angon in FFXI). While this is going far away from the "having a ranged attack to use during downtime" discussion, it turns into more of a utility skill for the party in straight zergs.

Allows you to still use it for pulls while you are solo'ing if you wish, but also adds in that utility for EG content. This adjustment however, has a much higher risk of the job vs job wars to fire up again.

[pompey_dan]

The changes I would like to see with piercing talon is to NOT break the current combo, also slightly less tp cost would be nice as it does rubbish damage anyways so that is the penalty for using it.

[Skyl1n3]

Just lessening the TP cost will be fine for me!

[LordLonghammer]

Piercing Talon has no use not because it is TP expensive...its a ranged attack on a melee. Our job is to stab things, not throw pointy things at things (that's a BRD's job). Talon is mostly a soloing thing, to grab or claim a mob that's just out of reach. In groups, you'd use it to get one little hit in on a boss to keep DPS from hitting 0 during an AoE (or like on Titan EX, that one bomb pattern that sometimes covers him entirely)

Not every ability needs to have a purpose in ALL content.

If there's a DRG skill to look at, however...its Feign. When is the last time anyone used that waste of TP beyond when you got it and saw it sucked?


One last thing...our rotation is long enough as it is...do we really need to make it longer and more complicated?

If you're just wanting to hit single bombs in Brayflox with the fast animation Feint is the way to go! lol outside of that its useless