Battle Reform: Enmity (07/06/2011)

[Cueball]

You say this like people are okay with the non-tanks pulling hate.

I say this because, players will pull the mob off the Tank from time to time, even if we do have an icon or not. I didn't say it's ok, simply it will happen.

[TirionCrey]

You're entire argument is on the assumption that every one of those top 5% think hate meters are a good thing. Sure, itll depend on the circles you traveled in but, I can tell you, first hand, that every non-leader WoW endgamer i have played with hates this addon. But, they used it because the guild leader demanded they use it.

This was true for all three guilds i was in.

If a hate meter exists people will demand that you use it. I does not matter if it is toggle-able. You will be using it. And it will impact your game play. I , and many other end gamers, would argue that it has had a negative impact on WoWs endgame. But, it will never go away.

Lol what retarded WoW "endgamers" have you been playing with? Back when I still played (Classic/BC) hate was a REAL issue, cause if the tank wasn't doing his absolute 100% best possible, a good to very good DD(not talking about the best) was able to grab hate really easily so things like a threat meter was more than welcomed by ALL endgamers I played with and idk what those 3 guilds you played with were like, but my old/still existing guild has been top 200 EU and right now are even top 100 worldwide...

Ever since WotLK and Cataclysm hate has never been an issue again...a tank that is average to good can keep hate over a very good to awesome DD cause the hate skills a tank uses generate so much hate now that there is no room for possible error anymore...DDs can go all out 100% of the time...

Not the threat meters made it easier, the threat generation that has been changed for tanks made it easier, cause hate is no issue at all anymore...if you're not completely stupid and retarded your grandma could tank in WoW and not lose hate.

[SuzakuCMX]

I say this because, players will pull the mob off the Tank from time to time, even if we do have an icon or not. I didn't say it's ok, simply it will happen.

You specifically said no icon = tank "flexes his tanking ability"
and
icon = "anyone pulling hate will be frowned upon"

Which is heavily implying that an icon means we will hate people for pulling hate. But in reality, players hate other players when they pull hate even if there isn't an icon. An icon means it's easier for other players to not pull hate. So they pull hate once because they didn't know what the icon was and get yelled at? Learning experience, better than pulling hate without an icon and learning nothing because the only way to learn your hate is by experimenting with abilities.

[WillRiker]

How about instead of adding a Porygon icon and sending children around the world into convulsive fits, we just allow our tanks to gauge their hate the old fashioned way? If the mob is hitting someone other than you, you are not at the top of the hate list and should consider sucking less?

The only portion of enmity that needed to be fixed was the incalculable formula that stripped away any kind of dynamic response to enmity spikes and lacked any consistency. If that is getting fixed, it's all we need.

If we're really getting an enmity icon though, can I request that it be in the shape of someone holding your hand? And put a duplicate icon on the minimap when you're at the top of the hate list, so you know exactly where you were when your hand was being held..

just quoting for truthiness

Lol what retarded WoW "endgamers" have you been playing with? Back when I still played (Classic/BC) hate was a REAL issue, cause if the tank wasn't doing his absolute 100% best possible, a good to very good DD(not talking about the best) was able to grab hate really easily so things like a threat meter was more than welcomed by ALL endgamers I played with and idk what those 3 guilds you played with were like, but my old/still existing guild has been top 200 EU and right now are even top 100 worldwide...

Ever since WotLK and Cataclysm hate has never been an issue again...a tank that is average to good can keep hate over a very good to awesome DD cause the hate skills a tank uses generate so much hate now that there is no room for possible error anymore...DDs can go all out 100% of the time...

Not the threat meters made it easier, the threat generation that has been changed for tanks made it easier, cause hate is no issue at all anymore...if you're not completely stupid and retarded your grandma could tank in WoW and not lose hate.

yes. The issue was not the need of an indicator as much as it was an issue with the enmity system itself.

I am not for an enmity system consisting of a 96969 rotation guarateed to keep a vice like amount of hate on you. But, with an enmity system that makes sense, there is no need for an indicator.

[Linkurrra]

Then we die and "learned" something by "playing" the game, not by being told what to, when to or how to. There is no enmity meter in any other MMO that I'm aware of and I've played hundreds. You learn what mobs do by playing and if you die as a result, then so be it, death penalties all but don't exist anymore in the modern MMOs so who cares! You get back up and try again, only differently until you learn the pattern and what works best!

With a colored meter indicating whether its ok to go with the Nuke or a simple DoT, or whatever else; thats just blatantly telling one how to play the game instead of letting us decide and learn by consequence.

Bah, this color meter is not accurate enough to tell you to do anything. It just "indicates" your getting a little careless and need to ease off. Why should a party wipe 4-5 times before they get it right.... Figuring it out?

I don't know how many parties you been in but after 2-3 wipes most party members bail, find an excuse to leave or just disconnect from rage /quit! lol

The only way you won't suffer from this PuP (Pickup Party) mentality is if you are with friends or a static group all the time. Then you all know each other and are more understanding of mistakes or have a flow and nuance by working together before.

With a meter, you have a chance to pull it together if the when things go downwind from a donkey's rear. (Yay for metaphors without swearing! lol) Without, your face is in the sand asking for someone for a <Raise>. Unless you in that hard to find static party that everybody wants :P

If you have that kind of support group with you all the time, more power to ya! But the rest of us on the server were not so lucky. Prolley because your LS couldn't fit anymore members in it! LOL (C'mon SE seriously?)

[Raistlin]

why u want enmity if mobs die in 5 secs, for NM only? double hp and more sp from mobs please

[Firon]

i don't know if someone said this didn't wanna read all the post first things first.

It's not a meter it's an icon so even if 2 people say. I have orange level hate you wont know who has the most cause it's not a meter or a percentage based icon.

So i don't think it's an bad idea i use to hate when mages spammed stupid stuff like Curaga IV cause they thought the tank had enough hate I'm hoping this icon make's me encounter less idiots who don't pay attention to battle.

[Synapse]

why u want enmity if mobs die in 5 secs, for NM only? double hp and more sp from mobs please

Yeah i been saying this for a while in game, if mobs live longer, you can make up new strategy to kill it instead of spamming attack and ws and zerging it, and of course the reward is also increased.

[Firon]

Yeah i been saying this for a while in game, if mobs live longer, you can make up new strategy to kill it instead of spamming attack and ws and zerging it, and of course the reward is also increased.

you guys are basing this off the current build they already stated they are gonna adjust the mobs stats. More importantly they already stated you you wont be able to win with just auto attack once everything is fleshed out.

[Synapse]

you guys are basing this off the current build they already stated they are gonna adjust the mobs stats. More importantly they already stated you you wont be able to win with just auto attack once everything is fleshed out.

This is how a normal party is going to be after implementation, an average, decent pt will be like this: always Tank(red blink) DDx4-5(Red), Magex1-2(Orange-Red) and this would be constant. I don't know how much this gonna help, a skilled player would already know what is going on and what to do and what no to do. This is only gonna help those that don't know hate management.