Yoshi talks a lot about "bringing FFXIV up to standard"...

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Well what about ArcheAge? It has an entire dynamic WORLD. TERA has a political system. Almost all next gen games are implementing these dynamic features (i.e. the world actually changes in some way either for you personally or for the world at large), and meanwhile SE just meanders along imlpementing some questhubs or whatever.

You see my point? You can hate on the games if you please but the standards are being set at a new level now. And SE will still be below that level if they continue to think WoW is the standard, because it's just not.

You're assuming that "Dynamic Content" is the wave of the future, but I don't see any proof that is will be. You keep pointing at games that are due to come out, but how about looking at some past games that had some sort of "Dynamic Content" and gauge how well they did.

Warhammer Online touted Dynamic PvP content in that factions could battle over encampments and take them over, making that encampment loyal to whichever faction that was able to occupy it. Age Of Conan had similar dynamic content, except that players built it themselves and other guilds could attack and take over. Where are both games now? Languishing in the F2P market. WOW WAVE OF THE FUTURE!

Dynamic content has problems. It sounds like a cool idea to someone who might stay home all day and be able to do nothing but play games and never miss anything. But for players with limited time, Dynamic Content excludes them if it doesn't happen in the perfect time zone for them to be in game for it.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

There are many different markets, you are one market, so what is your vision on the next MMO you want to pay to play, do you think based on what has been said this game is heading down that path?

What would ffxiv have to have for you to want pay for it.

There is nothing on my radar as of right this instance, but games with Dynamic Content are not on it. If there is a chance that I can miss a major evolution point in a game because I am stuck at work, I won't be playing it.

That is not to say that I don't think MMOs have no room to evolve. Honestly, what I would love to see in a game is technology that utilizes smart phone technology and actual geographical location.

[Physic]

There is nothing on my radar as of right this instance, but games with Dynamic Content are not on it. If there is a chance that I can miss a major evolution point in a game because I am stuck at work, I won't be playing it.

That is not to say that I don't think MMOs have no room to evolve. Honestly, what I would love to see in a game is technology that utilizes smart phone technology and actual geographical location.

i didnt mean stuff that exists, you want to see jacked, i more meant what are you looking for in an MMO, that you would be willing to pay for.

Dynamic content isnt as simple as you were at work so you missed it, GW mentions having dynamic content even in dungeons, so while you are say doing a dungeon for the 3rd time, maybe something different will happen with new and unexpected rewards.

Far as stwor, i dont like everything i ve seen in the game, but the quests are progressive, and logical, they demoed a quest on a planet, there was a reason for what you were doing, directly related to the progression of your charachter, and an overall story, and lore, with cutscenes. Other people who were on a similar quest, could see you doing the same quest, and join you midway. Even in the cutscenes both of you make choices which effect how the cutscene goes, sometimes you get your response, sometimes you get your partners. This seems like a better way to capture the market they were aiming for, which is all the people who loved knights of the old republic, and the adventure/story rpg based progression.

the point is that this is the generation of MMOs where the genre will be either expanded or redefined, whats going to be the next big thing? who can say? but the market is ripe for an expansion, and the key to expanding is to hit different markets, or have such strong appeal that your game transcends its specific market.

Basically they said there goal was to tap new MMO markets, including old FF fans who werent into the old concept of MMOs, making the game more similar to standardized MMOs can only get you a small share of their market.

With rift and WoW out, the only one that ffxiv will appeal to (if it stays on the standard mmo of 8 years+ plan) is people who like wow, rift, etc, but hate the setting. But to even compete with them, it has to be at least as polished. Which at the current pace, may take another year to be equal to them at release.

The problem is, with new MMOs, people are thinking that that share of the market will decrease, if it does, ffxiv will be taking and even smaller share of an already dominated market.

this may be their plan, maybe thats why they plan on 2-3 mmos, maybe they are going to make ffxiv the Wow EQ level competitor, and make something new for the new guys. Time will tell i suppose.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

i didnt mean stuff that exists, you want to see jacked, i more meant what are you looking for in an MMO, that you would be willing to pay for.

Dynamic content isnt as simple as you were at work so you missed it, GW mentions having dynamic content even in dungeons, so while you are say doing a dungeon for the 3rd time, maybe something different will happen with new and unexpected rewards.

Far as stwor, i dont like everything i ve seen in the game, but the quests are progressive, and logical, they demoed a quest on a planet, there was a reason for what you were doing, directly related to the progression of your charachter, and an overall story, and lore, with cutscenes. Other people who were on a similar quest, could see you doing the same quest, and join you midway. Even in the cutscenes both of you make choices which effect how the cutscene goes, sometimes you get your response, sometimes you get your partners. This seems like a better way to capture the market they were aiming for, which is all the people who loved knights of the old republic, and the adventure/story rpg based progression.

the point is that this is the generation of MMOs where the genre will be either expanded or redefined, whats going to be the next big thing? who can say? but the market is ripe for an expansion, and the key to expanding is to hit different markets, or have such strong appeal that your game transcends its specific market.

Basically they said there goal was to tap new MMO markets, including old FF fans who werent into the old concept of MMOs, making the game more similar to standardized MMOs can only get you a small share of their market.

With rift and WoW out, the only one that ffxiv will appeal to (if it stays on the standard mmo of 8 years+ plan) is people who like wow, rift, etc, but hate the setting. But to even compete with them, it has to be at least as polished. Which at the current pace, may take another year to be equal to them at release.

The problem is, with new MMOs, people are thinking that that share of the market will decrease, if it does, ffxiv will be taking and even smaller share of an already dominated market.

this may be their plan, maybe thats why they plan on 2-3 mmos, maybe they are going to make ffxiv the Wow EQ level competitor, and make something new for the new guys. Time will tell i suppose.

Yours is a question with no simple answer! I'll pay for a game that is fun to play, but that is just a broad boundary. Honestly, I was having fun in FFXIV right up to the point that I got my first level 50 job and hit that wall and lack of content. But it also doesn't take new and innovative concepts to make a game fun and worth playing. Hell, I paid for Lego Universe for a couple months.

What I wouldn't pay for were games like Age of Conan and Warhammer that promised new and innovative concepts but failed to deliver. In its current state, I probably wouldn't even be paying for FFXIV in its current state, but that is something the SE got RIGHT. Don't make the community continue to pay for a game that is still in development.

Back to the topic of Dynamic Content: Why does it matter what the setting is? PvP. Raids. Dungeons. SOMEONE has to set the dynamic content on a course and not everyone is going to be online as that course is determined. FURTHERMORE, what if the people setting the course are players that don't have the ability to complete something? Then they lose and the rest of the community has to suffer for it.

For example: Dynamic Content! Beat this boss to get to the next level of the dungeon and beat that boss and get to the next level ect (This is just an example). But say your raid party spent all day clearing the first floor of a dungeon and now the second floor is open. Your party takes a break. Some noob adventurers go in and try the second floor and get owned. Failure means something has to happen. Well now the dungeon gets reset and your guild has to go through the whole first floor over again.

Dynamic Content is flawed in that you are going to allow people who have more time dictate the gameplay for people who have less time.

[Davorok]

So now we are comparing Content that hasn't been released yet to games that haven't been released yet?

Might as well give up now SE cuz in the future we'll be playing with a Virtual Helmet in a fully rendered 4D world with 360 degree circumtriangulated views and a Gaming Harness for pleasure/pain stimulation as well as a feeding tube with pureed Nos and Corndogs.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

So now we are comparing Content that hasn't been released yet to games that haven't been released yet?

Might as well give up now SE cuz in the future we'll be playing with a Virtual Helmet in a fully rendered 4D world with 360 degree circumtriangulated views and a Gaming Harness for pleasure/pain stimulation as well as a feeding tube with pureed Nos and Corndogs.

I don't know that we are comparing the two, but what the OP was 'supposedly' trying to relay to us was that SE was falling behind the curve of the Next-Gen MMO, but they are basing it off games that have not been released yet. So.... sort of?

[Physic]

So now we are comparing Content that hasn't been released yet to games that haven't been released yet?

Might as well give up now SE cuz in the future we'll be playing with a Virtual Helmet in a fully rendered 4D world with 360 degree circumtriangulated views and a Gaming Harness for pleasure/pain stimulation as well as a feeding tube with pureed Nos and Corndogs.

Well seeing as how all we have to compare in this game, is what is planned (nothing has been implented) and the fact that any thing must be compared to the things that already exist, and things that fulfill the same need/desire that are currently being developed, it seems like we have to.

What we are comparing is ideas, and thats all that the development team is offering up. we could compare what is there now to what is also out there now in games, but then people would say, you cant compare that because they are reinventing the game. So which do you want to compare because i could go either way.

[RedAffinity]

i remember waking up, logging in to FFXI only to find out not enough people were online when a high level Besieged kicked off late at night and we lost our Astral Candy.

[Forerunner]

i remember waking up, logging in to FFXI only to find out not enough people were online when a high level Besieged kicked off late at night and we lost our Astral Candy.

Giftforce could probs solo that, since he has such a great insight to FF MMOs

[Jaide]

I don't want to play an action MMO, I don't like action games - that's why I play JRPG's and not action hack 'n slash RPGs like Diablo. I don't want to play WoW either, so I'm glad that XIV at least offers up something different than either of those types of games. Personally I like the direction Yoshi P is taking XIV so far. It seems like he's mostly adding back in the 'Final Fantasy' while removing some of the /facepalm design decisions that were implemented at launch.

I don't think they need to be concerned with 'modern' standards because those are subjective anyway. They do need to at least meet basic MMO standards however, and the standards of a numbered Final Fantasy title. That's exactly what I'm looking for in this game anyway, a 'classic' MMO that plays like a Final Fantasy game. Look at where the franchise came from. I'm sure a lot of people who want to like this game are fans of old school final fantasy where 'modern' additions to the genre don't matter as much. The only question in my mind is whether enough people will care when they finally get it there.