Exaltation and doubts concerning Rogue/Ninja

[Rubieus]

leaving only a wood in place, and creating shadows etc. They also have enfeebling abilities as well. Some of these could be made into Rogue stuff, but certainly not the elemental ones.[/list]

They have the same problem with Dragoon. 1 jump ability with a 40s CD does not a dragoon make.

[Gilraen]

They have the same problem with Dragoon. 1 jump ability with a 40s CD does not a dragoon make.

But Dragoons have three jumps. Jump, Spineshatter Dive and Dragonfire Dive.

[Monsalvato]

Utsusemi is iconic? It's basically Blink renamed. Which, funny enough, is a White Magic skill. So this foolish notion that it's an iconic Ninja move is a load of trash.

Read above my reply to Gilraen.
You're too focused on thinking about FFXI.
Ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist.
What's important here, the iconic thing, is the ability of "creating illusory shadows of one's self".
Utsusemi: Ichi and Utsusemi: Ni in final fantasy XI were just a possible implementation of that (and it was a defensive ability similar to the white magic spell "Blink", just like you said).

It doesn't have to be the same in FFXIV, I sure hope it won't! What's important here is the iconic ability of multiple shadows, whatever their role into the game mechanics will be.

[Kiokin]

Read above my reply to Gilraen.
You're too focused on thinking about FFXI.
Ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist.
What's important here, the iconic thing, is the ability of "creating illusory shadows of one's self".
Utsusemi: Ichi and Utsusemi: Ni in final fantasy XI were just a possible implementation of that (and it was a defensive ability similar to the white magic spell "Blink", just like you said).

It doesn't have to be the same in FFXIV, I sure hope it won't! What's important here is the iconic ability of multiple shadows, whatever their role into the game mechanics will be.

Utsusemi, in every single iteration of that ability in every single medium (not just Final Fantasy, in every single thing the skill Utsusemi has ever appeared in), has always been a defensive evasion action.

[TheRogueX]

This kinda makes me wonder if the strict standardization they adopted during patch 1.1 and the class reform. Is it really good, or if it can become a negative boundary for developers?
I'm talking about the 17+5 actions model, which they respected for all classes if we exclude pet actions.
I think maybe this is too strict of a "rule" that they gave themselves.
Maybe one class feels perfect with 15+5 (whereas with the current model they'd be forced to "invent" 2 useless actions to reach the number of 17), or maybe another class could kinda get 19, but they can't because of the limit.
It's the same with job actions. Some might as well feel perfect with 4 whereas some other could use 6 or 7 actions.
Standardizing stuff is nice, but I wonder if it really won't create issues in the future.

"trying as much as possible" to give 17+5 to all classes is a thing.
Making it absolutely mandatory no matter what even without reasons, is another thing, no?

I think it's rather silly, to be honest. I mean, because of this system they randomly had to give a SONG to ARCHER, since they can't fit it in the 5 from the Bard job (which, let's face it, is forced as it is.. archer -> bard? WTF were you smoking SE?).

[Monsalvato]

Yeah that's one good example that left me very puzzled.
I dunno.
It sure made sense during the times of 1.0 where they had to optimize times and resources, but I was expecting some major changes in ARR.
Maybe with the expansion?

I think they definitely have to do something about the Class/Job inconsistency that's present at the moment.
Of the 2 possible choices that were available at the time, Yoshi-P opted for the Class+Jobs model instead of the Jobs-only one for one reason.
And that very one reason is not fulfilled atm.
So they either find a way to fulfill it or it's completely meaningless to have a separation between Jobs and Classes (aside lore reasons, which could've been handled many other ways in the end)

[Lithera]

Blink was a WHM spell in XI. Ninjas in games prior to XI had the Blink ability not WHMs. Also 5 is only how many we have now. We have a level cap increase coming. People seem to ignore that fact a lot. If you want to make XI comparisons make them with level 50 jobs in XI. NIN in XI didn't have Migawari (the wood decoy spell) until the 80s.

[Lithera]

They have the same problem with Dragoon. 1 jump ability with a 40s CD does not a dragoon make.

Other than a couple of exceptions (Khimari's Lancet for instance), Jump IS the only thng that makes a DRG. What else did Kain do that Cecil couldn't? He just whacked things with a spear instead of a sword. Edgar was a Machinist first and foremost. DRG class in V again was simply about Jumping. In XIV we already have 4 Jumps (if you count Elusive) and a level cap increase coming that will introduce more abilities (Lancet maybe?).

[Kuwagami]

Ninjas in games prior to XI had the Blink ability not WHMs.

You'd really want to do some research before saying stuff like that

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Blink_%28Ability%29

FFI => WHM
FFII => WHM
FFIV => WHM
FFV => WHM
FFXI => WHM


not named blink if it was in other games.
It was never a NIN skill...

[KokonoeAiyoko]

Blink and Utsusemi work differently. Utsusemi is fast and versatile, Blink is slow but holds more damage and can't be used as quickly. Not to mention Utsusemi uses a tiered form of buff based on shadow count.