Delay the Rogue/Ninja class till expansion.

[Enepttastic]

How hard is to understand a new DPS implemented alone right now is a terrible idea and is just doomed to failure right off the bat?

I'm more curious as to how hard it is to understand that the tank/healer/dps player ratio has almost nothing to do with the tank/healer/dps class ratio.

Changed my mind. Getting tired of explaining crap on these boards at the moment.

[Kinseykinz]

Actually the regular DF queue doesn't try for one of each. Only the PvP queue does that.

No it does ...this was explained near launch by the devs when it was directly asked about.

PvP is the only queue that forces it.

[Rufalus]

I am on a legacy world where most people seem to be hardcore players who burn through things as quickly as possible and become hungry for more content. If ninja is the only job added to a patch then I can forsee revenant's toll filled with a cluster of hundreds of ninja, just like everyone put their fat chocobo mounts on display when that was released. I don't really mind the imbalance this creates, the game already has numerous flaws. If queue times for ninja are too long then I will just have to raise it with fates and leves.

[Airikay]

Hey, remember when that online video game petition actually caused something to happen?








Neither do I.

Operation Rainfall

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

I'm more curious as to how hard it is to understand that the tank/healer/dps player ratio has almost nothing to do with the tank/healer/dps class ratio.

Moar incoming as I type.

I understand that perfectly. What decides what each player plays are a lot of factors between the ratio of classes is just another one.

YET IS important since how party is configured and how is in any case to keep a balance between roles based on that party composition to make things as balanced as posible granted we all know everyone will play what they want and you will never see a perfect distribution of players between roles no matter what, you could have 1 DPS, 1 tank and 1 healer and proportions will be diferent. But damn, at least you are giving that player base a equally proportioned foundation from which it will vary, but it will be at least, a somewhat more distribuited foundations.

Now, add we dont have said proportional foundation which or party configuration demands, and on top of that adds that popular classes, iconic classes and fun to play, visually appealing, edgy, etc classes pull more people to them. Come on, im a DRG lol, i know how a player feels about being edgy and spiky and having a flashy cool move set and a fun to play class. Guess what, NIN seems to be all of that. Not to mention how appealing a dual weild sword/dagger class already is... Is gonna pull more people into it than a blackhole. Thats why im asking for adding it along another 2 classes, a Tank and Healer, not just to have at last that properly balanced foundation to add new classes in the future, but also to give the player base several focuses and not just one.

If you added the Ninja along with the Samurai or a Dark Knight and another healer, like a Chemist, an Oracle, (Anyone can see Geomancer as a healer?) you will divide the focus of the player base, you WILL make the player base to divide and spread between more classes and it will make the whole experience better to level ANY of those. Even if the Ninja is highly appealing.

But as it is right now, NIN is like a coca-cola in the desert.

[Kinseykinz]

1.- Most people has already all their classes above 30 at least. Anyone playing solid 3 hours a day since launch. What can i grant you about this point is that nor you or i know the exact numbers and we can only hope SE make an informed decicion about this numbers they and only they have.

First: Again you are assuming everyone has a 'must level all the things!' mentality. This simply doesn't happen. Heck some people who DO have this mentality but who have a class/job or 4 still to level that they haven't leveled due to (meh, not really interested in tanking/healing etc) might actually jump on the bandwagon AS a healer/tank to 'quickly get through it'
Second: You are acting as though the ONLY thing that will be launched in patch 2.4 is Rogue/Ninja. The fact is, new dungeons, storylines etc will also be released at this point....and players will divide up into different interests (some will level non-stop to be 'world first Ninja' but others will want 'world first BC3 clear....or go beserk crafting/gathering new items...etc) And in the '3 hours a day' club, this attention will be even more divided as they won't have time to do all the new stuff each day.

2.- No everyone is diferent than most players. Sadly for your point, MOST PLAYERS are interested in NIN and WILL BE leveling them.

Meh, People who play and main DPS roles (esp Melee) DPS roles are those who are likely most interested in them. Does that mean that dedicated tanks/healers/casters won't level it? Of course not. But their 'rush' to level is far less, and they very well might be happy to do other things and profit on the 'player in need' queue bonuses/help friends/do other content. I'm a 'main healer' type. Rogue/Ninja looks bad-ass....i totally understand and respect why people are excited about it (as they should be), but I'm not in a rush to level it....and technically, it's the only roll i'd have to level.

3.- Even if they fix the melee DD-Ranged DD ratio, they will not get rid of the party setup issue, parties are made to old a max of 2 or 4 DPS, adding more DPS just will make queues longer for both, ranged and melee since you will never have the same proportion of classes anyway, add on top of that that a good portion of the DPS population will be in the same class.

The amount of players stayed the same. And again, for the most part, people who will be die-hard in a rush to level this, would overwhelmingly be 'DD mains' anyway. What does it matter if someone who use to queue as Monk is now queuing as Ninja? The full-fill the same party slot. What it WILL help is lessen some of the Ranged queue wait times (as right now it's typically only SMN/BRD/BLM that have to wait forever). In 2.1 CT my SMN could wait 45+ mins for a party...my DRG 5....typically less of a wait than my WHM btw. Now will DD waits be longer for leveling dungeons, yeah maybe....but they won't be crazy long, because not every person leveling will be on the same point. The only folk who will notice it hardcore will be level 50 DD's trying to level-sync down for dailies, and they could do another party roll (and this might just entice them to do so....hint sch pre level 30 is OP and bad-ass...your fairy does all the work)

4.- Those same reasons have been proved useless right now to solve the actual DPS queue times in low level content, average 20 minutes on a crowded server. You think another DPS wont hurt it even more?

I live on a crowded server. My husband seldomly waits long for a queue on his Bard or Monk. Time of day also affects your queues. Because more crowded servers also just have more people doing content all the time (meaning more groups in dungeons). So it still works out.

5.- Pre-made parties are an option of the game, as is not playing anymore, it makes no sense to call this card since we are not talking about the options we have to deal with the problem, we are talking about how to PREVENT the problem. Two diferent things.

There will always be a race to level new stuff to some degree....you are making it out to be an epic problem...but all it will actually do is probably keep low-level dungeons and roulettes more relevant for longer....which SE needs. This also buys them more time because it keeps us happy with the 'leveling' content vs. desiring more level 50 content. And again, you can queue with 3 other FC mates....you should know 3 other people in game by now. Heck, they might even make the low-level dungeons be enterable by a pre-made party just like the High and extreme dungeons by this patch. Or let us take our chocobos in...there was talk of that as well. The point: maybe instead of running around shouting that the sky is falling you should look up first...or wait for more details about the patch. This is SE's problem to solve, and I doubt they'd simply offer this class/job in 2.4 if they didn't also have other ideas on how you could level.

6.- People playing to reach new level caps will do it first in their mains, and that level cap will obviusly requiere high end content and high end leveling, rising the level cap will actually HURT the situation by making dedicated tanks and healers to stay away from low level content by being in high end leveling.

The daily roulette....no matter the level will upscale your exp/gil bonus at the end of the dungeon based on the difference between the dungeons max level and your characters....the game basically tells you this now when you enter a dungeon below your level. So yes, if level cap is raised at this point, of course most folk will level their 'main' first...but they can effectively do that in dungeons of ALL levels. So low-level content will be viable and 'worth it'

7.- Because leves and FATEs are incredibly well done content everyone is happy to do for the octozillion time. Of course you dont have much of a choice when queue times become +1 hour.
As i said before already, adding anything ALONE that breaks the 2-1-1 ratio is a bad idea. But from the list of bad ideas, being that class alone a DPS is the worse idea.

Just because you don't enjoy them does not mean they don't work. If people are in a 'rush' they will use all avenues. People who aren't will take a relaxed pace and pick and choose what content they use to level....but really, I already saw carby-gate in Aug/Sept and it was FINE. And again, yes there was an influx of new players=people playing all jobs....buuuut: until people starting gaining rank 30+ as their ACN, there was only 1 native healer in game at launch (CNJ) and it worked out. I queued (almost instant) as DRG the entire time....got my legacy character's DRG from level 17-42ish just in the first 2-3 days of launch. That's right DRG....during the carby bubble.

And don't think SE didn't watch how that worked....they knew that the only healers, even on legacy servers=CNJ/WHM at launch until people got SCH....and even then, SCH's were unlikely to level-sync down a dungeon at that time due to simply not needing too (the mainstory quests+your storyline dungeons=the exp you basically need to keep going with little need to re-run dungeons). So we DID already live though this levels 1-30....and the sky didn't fall.

Actually back then the instance most broken was AK....and that had nothing to do with class/job spreads and everything to do with poor instance server dedication/underdevelopment/underestimating how many players would be grinding that instance.

[SirDiscoFrog]

Everyone running around leveling Arcanist wasn't the end of the world. Everyone running around leveling Rouge wont be either.

^Ultimately this.
In terms of DF queue times, look at launch when there were Arcanist galore vs now. Same situation will probably happen. Yes Q times will be longer but releasing a new tank/healing class or job as well wont help it too much. There will still be an insane number in comparison of people who would prefer NIN and the fact that it is a dps class is the major factor. Tanking/Healing takes responsibility that many dont care for. Q times for DPS would shoot up in both scenarios, its just one would be slightly more bearable.

And just like when DPS Q times were insane when beta4/early release/2.0 was released people we find other ways around it. Q'ing with a friend. Making full dungeon parties in PF (an option we did not have back then). As much as ppl hate it FATEs are a valid option. People doing low level roulettes will ease the burden as well. Not to mention Animus weapons require some of these lowbie dungeons so thats more people not playing RGE/NIN popping in to help out.

In terms of the economy, I dont see this as a problem. Giving crafters a bone is how I look at it. They will be the main ones able to push out weapons the fastest and HQ at that. And since there will be many FATE grinding this can become the attractive route for people wanting to properly gear their RGE/NINs. If people dont want to buy the weapons, there are class quests. Buying weapons off the MB is not the only answer and Im sure there is not going to be too much gear just for RGE/NIN that is pre 45 besides their weapons.

In terms of DF being unfriendly to DDs.....ha. funny. DF is unfriendly to all mistakes in general, not only DDs and this is mostly in higher level dungeons where mistakes are causing wipes. DDs are by far the easiest to get a pass in being subpar or even bad in a duty (unless its an end-game duty where there's a possible dps check). A bad tank/healer will get waaaay more criticism as its more obvious. Plus with this class being new, no one is going to know optimal dps rotations to really be able to judge them from a glance vs trying to figure out tanking with a new class and it being very apparent when you lose hate over and over again.

So many want this content, it would be a shame to push it back because of DF complications which there are work arounds for dealing with it (yes you have '3 simple arguments' but most of it is DF complications. There is nothing wrong with millions of RGE/NIN doing fates nor will the economy really be hurt by this. Even if their weapons are expensive on the MB, you dont need to buy them from there. Do your class/job quests. When it comes time for relic.....well lets just say this wouldn't be the first time a Relic weapon was overpriced.) Its not the perfect solution but id rather not wait more for this.

[Cynric]

Most of us switching to Ninja were already DPS/DD to begin with. Some of us like me have been waiting for a thf scout rogue style class to come out since we started because that's what we always played before. I've been waiting for a stealth class to renew my sub. This probably will inflate queue times for some. But most of the levelers will probably just do FATE anyway and use tokens to hop into endgame(much to my dismay) I would rather see another role come out at the same time as Ninja but I also have seen how classes are played during and after release in many games and well... People will default back to their mains after trying or leveling the new job. Which probably wont take very long.

[Moheeheeko]

next time you have a thought.....just let it go.

[Nekodar]

People seem to forget that available dps-tank-healer job ratio don't really have any correlation to what players actually play.
Sure there will be some people that normally play tank or healer that will do rogue/ninja at first, but new rogues/ninjas will primarily be people that already play dps.
Same goes for when new tank/healer jobs will be added. It will primarily be existing tanks/healers that go to the new tank/healer jobs, with few dps players switching role.