Battle Reform: Enmity (07/06/2011)

[TirionCrey]

I'll do this examples trying to explain my point of view on thread meter:
case 1: average-good tank + the spammers.
This will be short: spammers are a scourge. They should't spam at all. If they die, they deserve it, aggro meter or not.I don't think a spammer would bother watching it thou.

Case 2: less-than average tank + normal players.
Ok, we have a good pt but the tank it's a little sucky. Here's the point:
-tank do it's best, but since isn't so good, dds catch his hate often
-dds see the icon and stop damaging
-what happen now ? Nobody doing damage, aka the fight goes longer
-Mob isn't standing still, he's still attacking.Aka, the healer still heal
-On long run, the general efficenty of party goes bad
-eventually, healer run out mp, or nm rage
-guess what ?
In a environement like this, how can help you aggro icon? He don't teach tank do to his job better.He can save your life 1,2 times, but there are side effects on stopping doing your job.
This is my opinion.

The difference is...the aggro icon will show everyone BESIDES the Tank, that the tank SUCKS! So either they flame him to get better, or they kick him or w/e. So there is a learning effect in it...do you really think people will not wonder why they can't even do half as much dmg as with a good tank in the group and just say "Ah, that's just cause of the broken enmity, it's not the tanks fault"...in fact people will see they get close to getting aggro and wonder "What is wrong with this tank, I'm able to do twice as much with a good tank"

We need to learn to walk 1st, not skip everything and drive a car. What's next infinite Hp and mp? How much easier are they planning on making this game?*

I guess your parents didn't help you learning to walk, right?....
If you want to bring up RL examples, at least think them through before emberassing yourself. The teacher sitting beside you while you learn how to drive...he wasn't there either when you learned it right? You probably never needed help for anything in your life, you were born awesome!

In your example the aggro icon would resemble your parents and your driving teacher so your whole comparison is flawed.

[Zanfire]

The difference is...the aggro icon will show everyone BESIDES the Tank, that the tank SUCKS! So either they flame him to get better, or they kick him or w/e. So there is a learning effect in it...do you really think people will not wonder why they can't even do half as much dmg as with a good tank in the group and just say "Ah, that's just cause of the broken enmity, it's not the tanks fault"...in fact people will see they get close to getting aggro and wonder "What is wrong with this tank, I'm able to do twice as much with a good tank"



I guess your parents didn't help you learning to walk, right?....
If you want to bring up RL examples, at least think them through before emberassing yourself. The teacher sitting beside you while you learn how to drive...he wasn't there either when you learned it right? You probably never needed help for anything in your life, you were born awesome!

In your example the aggro icon would resemble your parents and your driving teacher so your whole comparison is flawed.

Im sorry, but id prefer not having a "this tank sucks button" it just doesnt promote learning. Nor does it help if someone else is not doing so good and it makes it seem like the tank sucks. besides, you can only see your hate, so its not like you could tell whos blowing it.

As for the RL example....being a meh one in the first place, the one thing you failed to mention is...the training wheels come off at some point, in all senarios. So do we stop having the agro icon later, or we stuck with training wheels and mommy holding our hands the whole damn time?

[Kailok]

Im sorry, but id prefer not having a "this tank sucks button" it just doesnt promote learning. Nor does it help if someone else is not doing so good and it makes it seem like the tank sucks. besides, you can only see your hate, so its not like you could tell whos blowing it.

As for the RL example....being a meh one in the first place, the one thing you failed to mention is...the training wheels come off at some point, in all senarios. So do we stop having the agro icon later, or we stuck with training wheels and mommy holding our hands the whole damn time?

Actually the indicator does promote learning. By using the indicator you would learn: X spell/ability = Y amount of hate. From this information you can learn how to use your class more efficiently (in the terms of efficiency for both the party and for your own damage output) as well as Tanks being able to gauge which ability they should use.

So yes, it's a learning experience. Experienced tanks will already know, but this helps new players who maybe never played a tanking class before learn how to best gain control over the hate of the mob. Once I'm level 50 I won't expect a new player to be as good at that class as I am. It helps to become part of the learning experience as a whole.

Also, I don't think this will completely make it so that battles won't suddenly turn batshit crazy. Just because you have an indicator doesn't mean that it will gimp your damage. Sure, you can make the choice to handle your hate like a good DD should, but I'm sure TP abilities still will give the tank a rough time. It's not like it's going to make things auto-win. It doesn't MAKE you provoke. It doesn't MAKE you better. It helps you learn to control yourself.

[Zanfire]

Actually the indicator does promote learning. By using the indicator you would learn: X spell/ability = Y amount of hate. From this information you can learn how to use your class more efficiently (in the terms of efficiency for both the party and for your own damage output) as well as Tanks being able to gauge which ability they should use.

So yes, it's a learning experience. Experienced tanks will already know, but this helps new players who maybe never played a tanking class before learn how to best gain control over the hate of the mob. Once I'm level 50 I won't expect a new player to be as good at that class as I am. It helps to become part of the learning experience as a whole.

Also, I don't think this will completely make it so that battles won't suddenly turn batshit crazy. Just because you have an indicator doesn't mean that it will gimp your damage. Sure, you can make the choice to handle your hate like a good DD should, but I'm sure TP abilities still will give the tank a rough time. It's not like it's going to make things auto-win. It doesn't MAKE you provoke. It doesn't MAKE you better. It helps you learn to control yourself.

For me its never been about the 1 thing, its been about them adding all of these things together...and im damn sure there is more to come. If all they had was the agro thing, eh i wouldnt mind, but when you add that with exact levels and my least favorite, the agro icon (i really dont like that one, Thats a real easy button) it all starts to add up to making the game feel too easy, when its already quite simple as is.

[Spellstar]

For me its never been about the 1 thing, its been about them adding all of these things together...and im damn sure there is more to come. If all they had was the agro thing, eh i wouldnt mind, but when you add that with exact levels and my least favorite, the agro icon (i really dont like that one, Thats a real easy button) it all starts to add up to making the game feel too easy, when its already quite simple as is.

Then vote with your feet and walk away. You are obviously wishing this game is something it is not and never will be. /wave

[Kailok]

Then vote with your feet and walk away. You are obviously wishing this game is something it is not and never will be. /wave

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but that kind of "don't like it, get out" attitude isn't something this community needs. We already have barely enough people playing, don't need more leaving. I wish everyone in this community (even me sometimes, I'm not talking about anyone in particular) would stop defending their opinions to the death and try to see things from another perspective sometimes. Just sayin', that's all.

For me its never been about the 1 thing, its been about them adding all of these things together...and im damn sure there is more to come. If all they had was the agro thing, eh i wouldnt mind, but when you add that with exact levels and my least favorite, the agro icon (i really dont like that one, Thats a real easy button) it all starts to add up to making the game feel too easy, when its already quite simple as is.

I get what you're saying. I personally thought when the Aggro indicator came out that it was going to be too easy, but luckily (at least I think) they have a toggle for that as well as the level indicator, so this way people can play as they please. Having an aggro/level indicator to be toggled is at least left up to the player because the community doesn't need to force it upon anyone. As for the threat indicator, as said before, within the community it will become a requirement. I also hope the game doesn't become easy-mode, nobody wants that, but I also trust the devs to make compelling battle game-play outside of the UI additions.

[Haibel]

Really what is wrong with you people.. you should have learned by now that
SE is has put everything UI related on a toggle. (due to every "hardcore" player bitching)

If you don't like the level display. Turn it off.

If you don't like the aggro Icon. Turn it off.

If you don't like On screen Dmg numbers. Turn it off.

If you don't like the game Turn it off. you have options. Use them.


As for my feeling on the enmity Icon. I would be nice if the Aggro/non-aggro icon
Changes into the enmity icon. I do also think it would be nice if it changed shape.
something for the color blind. You know, Circle, square, Diamond. something like that.