Battle Reform: Enmity (07/06/2011)

[genmakenx]

It would be nice if they actually gave a damn picture to go along with this. Just basically reiterating what they already told us in a headline news post without showing it. Not to be too nasty but if you keep pushing patches back at least give us some pictures or anything. Hard waiting and having nothing.

[Khalus]

This is absurd beyond absurd. Damnit SE, do you not get it that we don't want all this ridiculous "hand-holding-instant-gratification" crap you keep coming up with. A blinking red light, seriously ~ so when we're solo grinding mobs, will every damn one of them be blinking red endlessly!!!

As many have already said and I'm going to keep saying, just copy the systems that govern FFXI, they're brilliant, or remake FFXI already. With XIV you're making yourself look a fool and treating us like retards that can't think for ourselves...

[DGMart]

Relax... They can easily set a toggle off/on for solo. Or not use it for solo at all. My opinion would be have it in parties only where it matters.

[WillRiker]

So what is my enmity level when the mob turns from the tank and starts attacking me when I am not shooting anything at the time?

How about dying and running to rejoin the party from the Aetheryte. I heal myself up after weakness wears off. Mob starts coming towards me because I was healing. Yet for some reason it loses interest and goes back to original tanking party. All the while the tank had lost track of the mob because it left and went around the corner out of view.

Now you tell me what the enmity of that mob was as it was doing some pretty weird enmity decision making :P Granted that is the enmity under the current system, which they said was overly complicated.

Point is nobody knows how enmity truly works in FFXIV. It's all pure speculation based on their play experiences. And when every player experience has the potential of being unique. It's impossible to formulate a correct answer out of speculation!

This is just as bad as Facing north in XI to get better synthesis results. The darn game has been out for 8+ years and nobody still has a straight answer on if direction your facing actually affects synthesis results.

And even with the gauge, it is very vauge and only tells you what "YOUR" enmity is to the creature. Not anybody elses. So it can't tell you who pulled the enmity off of you. So it's not all that revealing on how the mob is behaving. Just a rough guide.

I would prefer numbers vs. colored icons. But SE seems to pride itself on keeping things a secret and having the player figure it out.

I just hope it doesn't show up when you are solowing. Because it truly is useless in that scenario!

All this means is that the enmity system itself is wonky. SE said this will be addressed with the update. It does not make an argument for or against a silly meter.

[Spellstar]

This is absurd beyond absurd. Damnit SE, do you not get it that we don't want all this ridiculous "hand-holding-instant-gratification" crap you keep coming up with. A blinking red light, seriously ~ so when we're solo grinding mobs, will every damn one of them be blinking red endlessly!!!

As many have already said and I'm going to keep saying, just copy the systems that govern FFXI, they're brilliant, or remake FFXI already. With XIV you're making yourself look a fool and treating us like retards that can't think for ourselves...

not everyone wants to play a new FFXI fyi. And even if they remade ffxi with new graphics ppl like you would then moan "its just the same old thing, nothing new here /quit."

Something to give players awareness of enmity is a good thing imo as it adds a further layer of strategy to battle. If the devs know players are aware of enmity, they can then make enmity more of a strategic element, rather than just "i wonder if i cast this nuke if the boss is gonna come kill me".

Players will now be able to think "ok i KNOW have some enmity already, shall i cast this nuke, or throw a dot on or use an ability to reduce my enmity first...that will increase my survive-ability and help the tank out" etc etc

At the moment, with no knowledge of enmity levels, players just spam their hardest nuke and button mash in the hope that a tank have voke or taunt off cooldown should they pull hate. If said tank has nothing to get enmity back, then at the moment the squishy CON just dies and calls out the tank for being a nub.

Now squishy the CON will at least be empowered with more knowledge to decide whether to cast a nuke or hold back for a sec.

SO my side of the argument is that Threat / Enmity management is an important strategic part of many MMO's and adding the ability to monitor your own threat levels enhances that strategy.

Adding threat meters/icons does NOT make the game "WTF sqeenix EZ mode WoW clone gimme FFXI HD now ffs /ragequit /wrists".

[yukikaze_yanagi]

I'll do this examples trying to explain my point of view on thread meter:
case 1: average-good tank + the spammers.
This will be short: spammers are a scourge. They should't spam at all. If they die, they deserve it, aggro meter or not.I don't think a spammer would bother watching it thou.

Case 2: less-than average tank + normal players.
Ok, we have a good pt but the tank it's a little sucky. Here's the point:
-tank do it's best, but since isn't so good, dds catch his hate often
-dds see the icon and stop damaging
-what happen now ? Nobody doing damage, aka the fight goes longer
-Mob isn't standing still, he's still attacking.Aka, the healer still heal
-On long run, the general efficenty of party goes bad
-eventually, healer run out mp, or nm rage
-guess what ?
In a environement like this, how can help you aggro icon? He don't teach tank do to his job better.He can save your life 1,2 times, but there are side effects on stopping doing your job.
This is my opinion.

[Chardrizard]

Lol some of these FFXI players are like the conservatives of MMO, people should know better to not argue with them.

[Jynx]

Knowing how to hold hate properly will not change, all this does is give a visual indication of if your doing a good job or if you need to pull back on doing damage.

If your meele need to stop doing damage alltogether there is an issue somewhere. Between the tank not getting enough hate or the meele generating too much, people will still need to learn balance this is mainly just a aid in that effort. Hell sometimes in FFXI certain mobs had crazy hate mechanics, or you had to watch your chatlog for big AOE attacks targeted on you.

How did you tell if you were being targets? The chatlog that could be scrolling a mile a minute.

At least if these type of attacks arise it will be easier for people to ID if they are being targeted by the mob without the need of /assist macros to find out who has hate.

[Khalus]

Something to give players awareness of enmity is a good thing imo as it adds a further layer of strategy to battle. If the devs know players are aware of enmity, they can then make enmity more of a strategic element, rather than just "i wonder if i cast this nuke if the boss is gonna come kill me".

Players will now be able to think "ok i KNOW have some enmity already, shall i cast this nuke, or throw a dot on or use an ability to reduce my enmity first...that will increase my survive-ability and help the tank out" etc etc

Players don't need a meter to tell them what to do, cause if one decides to cast that nuke and the boss burls over and spanks their ass, you can be damned sure the next time they face that mob, they'll cast the DoT instead...there's your meter ~ "Common Sense"

And as its been said already, in XI where no meter or means to really tell what a mob is going to do next has been quite successful for 9 yrs, why is it suddenly needed now!? It was not hard to get a jist of what was going on, by watching the mobs movements, and how it reacted to what spells you cast and what the PT members did.

Like for instance as a heal-bot myself back in the day and we'll use the dunes as an example. When I cast cure several times on the tank, the goblins would keep turning to face me, showing it was pissed off I was healing its target, sometimes it would start to make a run at and whack me. And as a healer you can't take that more than two or three times...common sense kicks in hard...maybe I should wait a few moments longer between heals so my enmity doesn't rise so fast and that goblin don't run over to thwack me again!

[JunkPunch]

Players don't need a meter to tell them what to do, cause if one decides to cast that nuke and the boss burls over and spanks their ass, you can be damned sure the next time they face that mob, they'll cast the DoT instead...there's your meter ~ "Common Sense"

^ 100%

I really hope they read that statement. But then again SE has no common sense as of late.