The Cutscene Skipping Debate - Change of View

[Tule]

None of this is a new perspective. You want to do things at your own pace? Use the party finder, because there are TONS of myth farmers. Hardly any story players. You want an easy 100 tomes? Well then you have to accept that other players may not want the same thing as you. You can group up quick, or PF even quicker, but don't ruin newbie's experience if you want the game to survive. The game tells new players to use duty finder because they may not have friends, and the main story is completed quickly so it would be hard to party finder it. You can say both sides are selfish, but can you honestly say both sides have the same resources to fall back on? That's a joke.

Name any game? PSU/PSO/DCUO, pretty much all console MMO's will support inexperience. You still have elitist, but there are easy groups to get into as well. So I guess, see you later. Have fun with Weapon Mastery.

[Velo_Vandore]

You want an easy 100 tomes? Well then you have to accept that other players may not want the same thing as you. You can group up quick, or PF even quicker, but don't ruin newbie's experience if you want the game to survive. The game tells new players to use duty finder because they may not have friends, and the main story is completed quickly so it would be hard to party finder it.

Thanks for the reply Tule. Firstly I'll just say I meant it's a new perspective for me, and could be for others that had the same thinking as me before. The fact is that players will do what they want. Whether it's selfish or not is purely opinion that's been debated over and over, and despite how strongly I or you may feel either way, there's no absolute right and wrong opinion on this. Instead of just being annoyed at society in general for not being more supportive to each other, I'm saying let's deal with facts. If the game removed the bonus tomes or forced cutscenes in Prae and CM would everyone suddenly be getting helpful groups or would they just be queue-ing forever for any group at all? Would there be any advantage? At least as things are we can get a group at all, and I've decided to take comfort i that instead of continuing to feel negative about the situation and other players (who owe me nothing really).

You can say both sides are selfish, but can you honestly say both sides have the same resources to fall back on? That's a joke.

No, I never meant to say that. It's much harder to get a group for a story run than it is to get a myth farming group. I think people should be respectful to others who choose to queue on duty finder hoping for a story run, but shouldn't be FORCED to help the new player. It's great if they do, but if they decide not to I respect that (even though i'd encorage otherwise). I think things like vote abandon, leave, and even vote kick can be used respectfully if there are clashing interests. It doesn't always have to be done after a row, just a simple "sorry, I think most here are myth farming, good luck with your next group" - vote kick.

Name any game? PSU/PSO/DCUO, pretty much all console MMO's will support inexperience. You still have elitist, but there are easy groups to get into as well. So I guess, see you later. Have fun with Weapon Mastery.

I'm still skeptical :P Are you sayoing in these games I can get a group easily for any group content in under 20 minutes and be free to watch scenes, explore and play at my own pace without being kicked or harassed? If so, please explain how you feel these games achieve that environment / community and whether you think FFXIV could achieve the same?

[Tule]

Snip

I am facing facts. And the fact of the matter is that even if you say both sides are selfish, one side is clearly in a better standing with the rest of the game and content. To try and punish them and force them onto an even smaller portion of the game is wrong. You can justify it all you want, but it is justification. I "force" speed runs from time to time, or I'll leave if the players or bad. But I know I'm being selfish. I try not to do it all the time. But if I did, oh well. At least I know, at least I'm not pretending like I'm not. And that is what is bothering me. The fact also is CM/Prae have always given tomes that end game players need/want, and even if it wasn't a lot people would still do it because its easy. So it isn't completely the roulette.


As far as PSU/PSO/DCUO. PSU is gone, but think you can probably still play the PSP version. DCUO, yes, you can do much of what you want, if you try to find a party. There are tons of kids and casual players. The game achieves this by being EXTREMELY casual. Its why I don't play it anymore. I'm casual, but that game takes it to a whole new level. Kind of like.. well.. CM and Prae. You can speed run it with a group of 4 and let the other 4 watch cutscenes, but instead people will kick newbies and probably never get a rep.

But all you said is you wanted quick dungeons. So have fun in DCUO.

[Velo_Vandore]

snip

I think you're missing my point or I didn't make it clear, but I'm not just looking for quick dungeons. Ideally I would like to be able to have a short queue for a dungeon and still be able to enjoy the cutscenes, participate in all battles, and be supported by other players rather than rushed. The whole point of my thread however is not to say I'm NOT annoyed at people that this isn't possible, but instead that I have accepted that it isn't because people have different goals. Also that people farming content on roulette runs does still serve a useful purpose to the new player should he fail to get his preferred slow / story run type of group by other means.

While I like to enjoy my first run without rushing, I do like a challenge so I imagine the balance FFXIV has achieved is probably closer to my preference than the other games you're describing.

Edited: forgot the highlighted word above. Kinda important one XD

[Tule]

Snip

Well if you want quick ques that let you watch the cutscenes and you aren't rushed then DCUO is for you. Have fun.

[Velo_Vandore]

Thank you Razzle.

I have to admit I also lacked that common sense for some time.

Ignorance is bliss and it's all too easy to point the finger. It's harder to accept not getting your way, and to understand different objectives to your own. I too love to wait and support new players, and will always wait days / weeks if needed to get a group I can enjoy my own first run with, but I try to be more understanding now of people choosing to "speed-run" roulettes. Players who maybe are interested in getting down top tier content like turn 9 with friends before it's nerfed and only have a few hours each night to play. I can understand why they don't want to spend 2 hours for a roulette. I'll never excuse rudeness though from either side though. I'll admit I've been aggresive once or twice in Praetorium when players lock out the new guy who's still in the scene. I sat and refused to fight and called the others selfish. I'm not so proud of that anymore and wish I'd handled it differently.

[Razzle]

Name any game? PSU/PSO/DCUO, pretty much all console MMO's will support inexperience.

Didn't play DCUO, but PSU/PSO? loool... Those games are built around duty finder and is filled with speed running... Yet players there don't care... I don't even think you can compare the two to FFXIV because the cutscenes there belong to solo story missions.

At the end of the day its just poor game design with those story raids but that's a different thread.

What you don't realize - Is that players just won't wait for cutscenes. Ever. Make them skiappble, they will skip. Make them forced - they will just won't run that dungeon.

The result is the same for you, so might as well make it skipable and give the newbies an option to run it fast than force it and take out that option from them.

[Tule]

Snip.

Cutscenes aren't skippable in DCUO. All the big dungeons have them.

PSU/PSO weren't stellar games. Doesn't change the fact you could ALWAYS find a White Beast party. Someone would say "Have at least 40% dark" or something like that, but there were plenty of idiots running around with light on light slicers, and still beating the dungeon. Cause it was easy. I didn't say they were great or challenging games. I just gave him what he wanted, he acted like it didn't exist.

[Razzle]

but there were plenty of idiots running around with light on light slicers, and still beating the dungeon. Cause it was easy. I didn't say they were great or challenging games. I just gave him what he wanted, he acted like it didn't exist.

I still don't understand how PSU and PSO are the answer. They don't have cutscenes at all. As for DCUO, if the cutscenes there are as long and as many as FFXIV's, I bet they're not so popular. So again, the newbie rather be able to run a popular dungeon fast than to not run it all.

[Tule]

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Because he said "Please tell me the game / time, when you could get a random group, at the drop of a hat, in less than 20minutes, for any dungeon that would politely support you despite inexperience and wait for you during long cutscenes."

It doesn't have cutscenes, but it has quick dungeon that support inexperience and will support you. I think saying "because it doesn't have cutscenes" it being a little too specific. The idea here is there are two groups of people in pick up dungeons, and one group is rushing the other. And he is acting like that is inevitable. It is, to a degree, but there have been and still are games where you can find somewhat patient people and you don't have to go out of the way and wait "hours / days / weeks for your first run, but enjoy it as you would like to."