An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Wolfie]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, as I'm not patient enough to read through 11 pages.

I could see an exp debt system working for FFXIV.

It would function like this:

On death, an exp debt bar fills up by a certain amount/%. While you have debt, any experience you earn will decrease this exp debt bar, but will NOT increase your regular exp bar. When the debt bar is emptied out, exp gains function like normal.

In addition, the exp debt can be wiped through money contribution (stiff pay) or perhaps a once-a-week repeatable quest.

[Nharil]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, as I'm not patient enough to read through 11 pages.

I could see an exp debt system working for FFXIV.

It would function like this:

On death, an exp debt bar fills up by a certain amount/%. While you have debt, any experience you earn will decrease this exp debt bar, but will NOT increase your regular exp bar. When the debt bar is emptied out, exp gains function like normal.

In addition, the exp debt can be wiped through money contribution (stiff pay) or perhaps a once-a-week repeatable quest.

From a lore perspective it would be funny to see how they would spin gil donations into XP debt removal.

If they DID go with an XP loss penalty, that would be a nice alternative to wiping it. XP debt with an alternative is better than XP loss -- I can get behind that.

[Wolfie]

From a lore perspective it would be funny to see how they would spin gil donations into XP debt removal.

If they DID go with an XP loss penalty, that would be a nice alternative to wiping it. XP debt with an alternative is better than XP loss -- I can get behind that.

Pay a priest/mage/whatever for magical soul healing. Or a warrior/thief/whatever for training (because obviously you weren't as well trained as you thought you were).

Perhaps they could have this exp debt decay over time as well, to give a "reward" to those who die less often.

[Stilla]

Introduce bonus effects for not dieing, so when you die, you loose the effect of the bonus.


For example:

Slaying and defeating adversaries currently gives players experience points. If in addition to the level progression experience points they give you for killing beasts, you also received points for staying alive. The points gained are used to reach milestones which result in attribute bonuses.

With each milestone you receive, you will enhance certain aspects of your Player Character.

Lets just say there are 5 tiers.

* Rank 0 – No effects.

* Rank 1 (5,000 points) – Raise all Attributes by 1

* Rank 2 (10,000 points)– Raise all Attributes by an additional 1

* Rank 3 (20,000 points)– Raise all Attributes by an additional 1 and gain an additional effect to increase running speed.

* Rank 4 (30,000 points) – Raise all Attributes by an additional 3

* Rank 5 (50,000 points) - Raise all Attributes by an additional 5 and gain an additional effect to increase running speed.

If you obtained rank 5 and you died, you would fall to rank 4. If you were rank 1 and died you would fall to rank 0. If you are rank 0 and die there is no loss as you are have no bonus effect.

[northernsky]

Introduce bonus effects for not dieing, so when you die, you loose the effect of the bonus.


For example:

Slaying and defeating adversaries currently gives players experience points. If in addition to the level progression experience points they give you for killing beasts, you also received points for staying alive. The points gained are used to reach milestones which result in attribute bonuses.

With each milestone you receive, you will enhance certain aspects of your Player Character.

Lets just say there are 5 tiers.

* Rank 0 – No effects.

* Rank 1 (5,000 points) – Raise all Attributes by 1

* Rank 2 (10,000 points)– Raise all Attributes by an additional 1

* Rank 3 (20,000 points)– Raise all Attributes by an additional 1 and gain an additional effect to increase running speed.

* Rank 4 (30,000 points) – Raise all Attributes by an additional 3

* Rank 5 (50,000 points) - Raise all Attributes by an additional 5 and gain an additional effect to increase running speed.

If you obtained rank 5 and you died, you would fall to rank 4. If you were rank 1 and died you would fall to rank 0. If you are rank 0 and die there is no loss as you are have no bonus effect.

Yeah I like the idea.

But instead of time, it could be an amount of exp gained before dying, so it forces you to actually fight (especially some strong mobs) instead of just standing there logged in but AFK just to cumulate the bonuses

This, with exp chains, would incite people to play well and efficiently because efficiency would actually be rewarded. The fastest you kill the stronger mobs, the fastest you reach your bonuses, which favor faster kills and better chains etc.

Dying in such a system would severely alter exp/hour but would not represent an additional time sink for casual players who were just feeling like exploring

[Rentahamster]

Introduce bonus effects for not dieing, so when you die, you loose the effect of the bonus.


For example:

Slaying and defeating adversaries currently gives players experience points. If in addition to the level progression experience points they give you for killing beasts, you also received points for staying alive. The points gained are used to reach milestones which result in attribute bonuses.

With each milestone you receive, you will enhance certain aspects of your Player Character.

Lets just say there are 5 tiers.

* Rank 0 – No effects.

* Rank 1 (5,000 points) – Raise all Attributes by 1

* Rank 2 (10,000 points)– Raise all Attributes by an additional 1

* Rank 3 (20,000 points)– Raise all Attributes by an additional 1 and gain an additional effect to increase running speed.

* Rank 4 (30,000 points) – Raise all Attributes by an additional 3

* Rank 5 (50,000 points) - Raise all Attributes by an additional 5 and gain an additional effect to increase running speed.

If you obtained rank 5 and you died, you would fall to rank 4. If you were rank 1 and died you would fall to rank 0. If you are rank 0 and die there is no loss as you are have no bonus effect.

Yeah, this is sort of like my idea, but I like your concept of achieving "staying alive" bonus better. The flaw with what I proposed is that you could just eventually get the "staying alive" bonus by not playing for a while. In your proposal, you actually have to work and play the game to get the status. You have to earn it.

To make things interesting, I would suggest that if you die, you revert to rank 0. That would make death even more tragic and scary.

[Shiggysonson]

Everyone saying that the current penalty is fine or the current penalty is enough... well that's the problem in my opinion. I think the penalty for dying should be bad enough to make us think that it's NOT fine or it's TOO much. This isn't because I like pain. It's because I think this is what gives battle in the game that sense of danger. The exp loss in FFXI did a great job doing this.

I do understand what people are saying with how running back and exp loss are both time sinks in the end. The feeling I got when facing danger was very different though. Running back from the aetheryte is simply a matter of time, and the thought that goes through my mind when I'm about to die is literally "oh well... it's only going to take five minutes to get back here." When my party got into an "Oh shit!" situation in ffxi, it was "oh man! I don't wanna die!!" I'm sure there are many factors that play into this difference of reaction when facing danger, and I think the lack of penalty for dying is one of them.

I do agree that there should be a heavier penalty for dying, but I don't think exp/sp penalty is right for the current FFXIV. Every monster having a ranged attack does make it hard to avoid death sometimes even if you know what you're doing, and the difficulty level jump from increasing/decreasing it by one star is too big for some leves; 4 stars can be impossible while 3 stars can be too easy for the same leve. The exp loss penalty may fit more once they change the battle system.

[Rowyne]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, as I'm not patient enough to read through 11 pages.

I could see an exp debt system working for FFXIV.

It would function like this:

On death, an exp debt bar fills up by a certain amount/%. While you have debt, any experience you earn will decrease this exp debt bar, but will NOT increase your regular exp bar. When the debt bar is emptied out, exp gains function like normal.

In addition, the exp debt can be wiped through money contribution (stiff pay) or perhaps a once-a-week repeatable quest.

No offense, but this still looks like exp loss to me, only prettied-up.

The only difference is the idea of an alternative to wipe the debt.