An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Nharil]

You're definitely a masochist.

Anyone who wants more punishment is a masochist. Personally, I don't like pain - it hurts - so I tend to avoid it. Most people who want to live past 20 do so. If I had to pick a poison, it would be a productive one with stimulative effects, not one that make you hurt (but it feels oh so good!) and suffer for no good reason.

Harsh penalties are counter-productive to moral, which is important to keep in a long term game. You keep getting shut down and demoralized your chances of continuing to play decrease. There's usually no triumph, no glory or lesson to be learned that couldn't be learned without a death penalty.

Hahaha, yeah maybe just a little.

That's a really good point though -- that's why I'm completely fine WITHOUT that kind of penalty, but it's what I'd like to see. I get just as mad at dying as the next guy, but it's just a preference. I've had a hard time feeling any kind of emotion about ANYTHING in XIV since launch, and this is just one of many things that I personally think would help to bring back something more than standard-fare apathy to the world.

edit: I think once more instanced content and larger, more exciting battles come into play in the game that my opinion on the penalties will change.

It'd be a completely contextual change to death: Dying in a group while trying to rush to the end of a dungeon before the end of a time limit (dying means lost efficiency and slowing the group down) versus dying while trying to make it from point A to B in a zone full of monsters that have every intent on skinning you alive.

[WintersMoondancer]

I am definitely against the XP/Sp loss, it's pointless. Why should you be penalized because you traveled from a R1 camp to a R10 camp just to have some IT aggroing mob chase you down and kill you, very quickly in fact. Because of the placement of high level aggressive mobs in lowbie areas it increases the risk of death too often.

Lets see, there was a Sand Peiste (level 45-50 mob) that was camping lowbies right outside the gate of Uldah many times when a lowbie was going to a rank 1 camp. So if he got eaten (happened twice to me because mob saw me before he spawned on my screen) the player should be penalized? No thanks, that is just plain stupid.

How about the aggressive high level orge that has appeared closed to Horizon camp? So a level 15-25 lowbie is going happily to do their leves and shrek's evil red ogre-cousin kills them? Again, that just doesn't make sense. And don't forget those giant ants that are aggressive too and appear in the middle of doing your leve and at times block your mission.

Plain and simple, no exp or sp loss penalty. You get punished enough by other things in the game.

[Rentahamster]

Maybe we should have a death ranking on each server we can see which chumps die the most

[Kurokikaze]

It'd be a completely contextual change to death: Dying in a group while trying to rush to the end of a dungeon before the end of a time limit (dying means lost efficiency and slowing the group down) versus dying while trying to make it from point A to B in a zone full of monsters that have every intent on skinning you alive.

Every other MMO accomplishes this without wasting the player's time and progress.

[Jabo]

I too think content and a modified battle system is way more important than a harsh death penalty.
It is the easiest and fastest way to get certain effects though.

[Rowyne]

Lets see, there was a Sand Peiste (level 45-50 mob) that was camping lowbies right outside the gate of Uldah many times when a lowbie was going to a rank 1 camp. So if he got eaten (happened twice to me because mob saw me before he spawned on my screen) the player should be penalized? No thanks, that is just plain stupid.

LOL, I was thinking of this exact situation. I've gotten ganked by that Peiste when the lag used to be unbearable, coming around the corner of a rock and running smack right into him before I even knew he was there. He had no business being in a lowbie area.

And still there are people who claim that if you die, it's your fault, so suck up that harsh death penalty.

/facepalm

[Nharil]

Every other MMO accomplishes this without wasting the player's time and progress.

There's still a pretty big variety of MMOs that each have their own take on death (some with XP debt, corpse runs, stat loss, etc.), but yeah, it's definitely more common in modern MMOs to throw the player back into the action as quickly as possible and punish them with a wait or a repair bill.

What was your first MMO? There seems to be a pretty big divide on opinions based on when you jumped into playing games in the genre. I started back with Ultima Online, Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot, all of which had BRUTAL penalties. We got used to it, and it would be silly to try to argue that those games didn't have a big impact on my thoughts about game death.

[Alexandrious]

Yea, their needs to be a penalty, make my endless grind more interesting.

[Kurokikaze]

There's still a pretty big variety of MMOs that each have their own take on death (some with XP debt, corpse runs, stat loss, etc.), but yeah, it's definitely more common in modern MMOs to throw the player back into the action as quickly as possible and punish them with a wait or a repair bill.

What was your first MMO? There seems to be a pretty big divide on opinions based on when you jumped into playing games in the genre. I started back with Ultima Online, Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot, all of which had BRUTAL penalties. We got used to it, and it would be silly to try to argue that those games didn't have a big impact on my thoughts about game death.

My first MMO was FFXI. I played it during Beta and started immediately on PC release. I leveled a DRG in 2003-2004; and since experiencing that I have hated exp loss as a penalty for death.

You dont know a grind until you've experienced early DRG. Having that progress stripped away from you for reason that may or may not have been your fault was awful.

[Rowyne]

My first MMO was FFXI. I played it during Beta and started immediately on PC release. I leveled a DRG in 2003-2004; and since experiencing that I have hated exp loss as a penalty for death.

You dont know a grind until you've experienced early DRG. Having that progress stripped away from you for reason that may or may not have been your fault was awful.

Ugh, back in those days there was some serious Dragoon hate, for reasons I never understood. My DRG friends could never get a party.

<3 Wyverns! <3