Battle Reform: Enmity (07/06/2011)

[Teknoman]

Even when available, I never used auto-potion since I like to keep track of my own items/use it at the last minute so i'm not wasting anything.

[northernsky]

Yes, there's no doubt that it will raise efficiency in general because not everyone is skilled or wants to take the time to learn how improve. Even some skilled players will at times fail against an indicator, and a party isn't going to tolerate someone 'learning' how to play when that information is readily available. My point was, if you add something that makes the game easier to play, then everyone will use it regardless of whether they like it or not. You can't use adopt rate to judge if it's a good addition. How many people are grind failing the same leves over and over again because it's the best SP/hr, even though they hate doing them ad nauseam? Just because something makes the game easier to play doesn't make it fun.

It's not a game feature, it's exploiting a gap in the rules and this problem is taken care of atm

[Jaide]

Auto-WS and Auto-Cure, Auto-battle to summarize.. it's not the same at all as a threat indicator. Your exemples are the game playing for you, the threat indicator doesn't make you magically skilled at your class. It's just that, an indicator that helps you gauge your threat. You still need to manage it and math it out since it's not hard data, it's a color indicator...

It wasn't my example, but I think the point they were trying to make was that something increasing efficiency in a party doesn't in itself prove the thing is a good addition to the game. I don't think they were claiming that the threat meter was the equivalent to an auto-cure/battle anything. That would be much more extreme.

[Duelle]

Revisions great they are needed, gauge to show it hmm not so sure. In FFXI this was never needed, like others said you learnt and got a feel for your job to manage enmity, if you dropped a huge cure bomb or massive weaponskill and the tank wasn't ready you pulled hate easy as that. I'll reserve judgement until I play it on this one I guess.

XI also had slower combat and very strict enmity values on certain things. Even when people stole aggro I had a rough idea of what to do on my PLD to get hate back. XIV's combat system is faster, which means you don't have the kind of leeway, and instead need something that'll give you a clear indication of where you stand on the threat table.

Granted, I look at threat meters as stuff that should be addons and not really part of the official game client. It's really needed for raiding more than anything else, IMO, as the guy doing solo quests or instanced dungeons doesn't really need to know how far ahead or behind he is from the tank in threat.

[Rentahamster]

Final Fantasy Tactics + Auto Potion skill + only X-potions in your inventory = Do your best, Weigraf!

[northernsky]

It wasn't my example, but I think the point they were trying to make was that something increasing efficiency in a party doesn't in itself prove the thing is a good addition to the game. I don't think they were claiming that the threat meter was the equivalent to an auto-cure/battle anything. That would be much more extreme.

Well...

An Auto-WS system or an Auto-Cure system would still increase the efficiency, would you still want it? To me it's just the same as an enmity meter.

I will reword my initial statement, I think that a feature that favors a player to play efficiently is a good feature. I was not meaning that better efficiency (in terms of better exp/hour) is always a good thing

[Jaide]

It's not a game feature, it's exploiting a gap in the rules and this problem is taken care of atm

I know that, and I'm actually glad it's getting fixed - I never did it myself. My point this time was that if you give the players any avenue to increase sp/hr (intended or not) the majority will use it regardless of whether they like it or not. The same goes with the emnity meter. My point in my original post was that you can't just add something and let the community decide via adoption whether it was a good addition to the game or not. Some people were suggesting that earlier in the thread.

[AdvancedWind]

Final Fantasy Tactics + Auto Potion skill + only X-potions in your inventory = Do your best, Weigraf!

Yeah Weigraf, take that! Let's see you make me restart the game from scratch again just because I saved right before your battle and didn't have a backup save!

[Jaide]

Well...



I will reword my initial statement, I think that a feature that favors a player to play efficiently is a good feature. I was not meaning that better efficiency (in terms of better exp/hour) is always a good thing

Oops, I missed that part sorry! It's not equivalent at all.

I'd rather a party is efficient because the players have learned how to play properly rather than the game artificially improving performance with more indicators. I enjoy learning how to improve how I play, but on the other hand I don't want to risk angering my party because I choose not to acknowledge all of the information available to me. Whey they add this I'll be coerced into using it just like everyone else, but I still won't like it.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Oops, I missed that part sorry! It's not equivalent at all.

I'd rather a party is efficient because the players have learned how to play properly rather than the game artificially improving performance with more indicators. I enjoy learning how to improve how I play, but on the other hand I don't want to risk angering my party because I choose not to acknowledge all of the information available to me. Whey they add this I'll be coerced into using it just like everyone else, but I still won't like it.

I understand your concern but again you will still need to know how to play and to know which abilities generate a lot of threat and which ones does less threat. You will need to know how to play your class even with the indicator since it's not a hard data (I'm repeating myself). There will still be good players and bad players that does everything wrong even with that indicator. Yet it even helps you better improve your gameplay since you like to learn to play properly because you will learn what abilities you can do when your indicator is orange or which one will be borderline ok and which ones will be out of the question unless you lower your threat first with other abilities you will have learned work effienciently to lower it. With this indicator you can elaborate a much more strategy for yourself than just your "guessing". To me, it just makes for a more skillful play that your guess work play you are defending.

it's a win/win addition that some fail to see the full potential because they are too busy complaining about something they either don't understand fully or did not try.