Battle Reform: Enmity (07/06/2011)

[Reinheart]

See this is the kind of thing the devs should of made the video for so we can see it... not no stupid AA video which most other MMO's already have... at least that way we get to know what it's like (most likely still have this debate thread either way lol)

[Perrin_Aybarra]

I still dont care for it, though the level thing is fine, i just still dont like the agro thing...kills part of the fun, especially when new people run past the wrong mob and we get some good lols.

I thought so too about the mobs aggro icon, but it doesn't make much of a difference in the end. There are not much of a variety of mobs so you know anyways which one aggros or not, plus they all aggro to "range" and de-aggro if ou just run 5-10sec. The icon would be "easy-mode" if they had different type of aggro mobs (like sound, sight, magic, blood, etc).. but now it's pretty meh anyway; aggro icon or not, the game is still easy-mode.

As for the threat icon, even after reading all the comments, I still think it's a good addition and can only promote better/skillful play and give us more challenging fights. Pushes people to the limit while not leaving all to guess work but still leaving a bit of "guessing" since it's a color code and not a hard number.

[WillRiker]

I welcome the updated emnity calculations, but I wish they weren't adding the indicator. I tend to prefer the classic MMO and all the modern convenience features like GPS maps, quest indicators, agro/level indicators, and now this emnity indicator take the fun and adventure out of the game for me. Even if they make it a toggle, the fact that not everyone will be playing at their most optimal level without it will make it deemed mandatory by the players.

Also, you can't just add something to the game that makes it easier to play and then check adopt rate to see if people like it. If it indirectly increases sp/hr through party efficiency then everyone will use it whether they like it or not.

yes, sometimes i think people forget about this. making something related to being knowledgable toggleable doesn't work. Would anyone here be willing to invite a player who refuses to use the hate meter or the agro information yo their next expedition? I really don't think so. Sure, it may technically be toggleable... but in reality... it isn't.

[northernsky]

I welcome the updated emnity calculations, but I wish they weren't adding the indicator. I tend to prefer the classic MMO and all the modern convenience features like GPS maps, quest indicators, agro/level indicators, and now this emnity indicator take the fun and adventure out of the game for me. Even if they make it a toggle, the fact that not everyone will be playing at their most optimal level without it will make it deemed mandatory by the players.

Also, you can't just add something to the game that makes it easier to play and then check adopt rate to see if people like it. If it indirectly increases sp/hr through party efficiency then everyone will use it whether they like it or not.

So what you are saying is that it will increase efficiency. If that's the case, I don't see how it's a bad idea.

Now, most naysayers argue that it's useless cause any decently skilled player should be able to estimate and manage hate without a meter. If that's the case, then, there is no problem in making it toggle-able since those "skilled players" would not be penalized compared to the others who use (and enjoy) it, and it would not kill immersion and whatever for those who turn it off.

[kukurumei]

So what you are saying is that it will increase efficiency. If that's the case, I don't see how it's a bad idea.

Now, most naysayers argue that it's useless cause any decently skilled player should be able to estimate and manage hate without a meter. If that's the case, then, there is no problem in making it toggle-able since those "skilled players" would not be penalized compared to the others who use (and enjoy) it, and it would not kill immersion and whatever for those who turn it off.

Empirical evidence suggest otherwise. As I and others have pointed out again and again, it's been done and we've seen the results of it.

Outcome isn't that desirable.

We could have a better cheerleading if this was something new and revolutionary...but it's really not.

[Alfortis]

Lol it's this debate loop again.

Complain about how the question mark icon for a quest will ruin the game.

Have a very long debate about it.

Few months later we all forget about it and not care about the question mark icon.

After a few months a new feature comes around the corner.

repeat the above, but this time replace the question mark icon with the new feature.

[WillRiker]

So what you are saying is that it will increase efficiency. If that's the case, I don't see how it's a bad idea.

Now, most naysayers argue that it's useless cause any decently skilled player should be able to estimate and manage hate without a meter. If that's the case, then, there is no problem in making it toggle-able since those "skilled players" would not be penalized compared to the others who use (and enjoy) it, and it would not kill immersion and whatever for those who turn it off.

LOL not everything that increases efficiency is a good thing.

And for double measure you mentioned that it could be toggleable... we all know that even if it was toggelable... in virtual reality it will be made manditory.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

LOL not everything that increases efficiency is a good thing.

And for double measure you mentioned that it could be toggleable... we all know that even if it was toggelable... in virtual reality it will be made manditory.

*omen threadmeter*

[Teknoman]

Personally I think the indicator will work fine. Im sure this has already been posted at some point after 22 pages, but it should allow people that want deal damage or tank to push their capabilities right until that critical threshold. It will be helpful, but wont make things any easier.

You still wont be able to win unless you know how to play your character.

[Jaide]

So what you are saying is that it will increase efficiency. If that's the case, I don't see how it's a bad idea.

Now, most naysayers argue that it's useless cause any decently skilled player should be able to estimate and manage hate without a meter. If that's the case, then, there is no problem in making it toggle-able since those "skilled players" would not be penalized compared to the others who use (and enjoy) it, and it would not kill immersion and whatever for those who turn it off.

Yes, there's no doubt that it will raise efficiency in general because not everyone is skilled or wants to take the time to learn how improve. Even some skilled players will at times fail against an indicator, and a party isn't going to tolerate someone 'learning' how to play when that information is readily available. My point was, if you add something that makes the game easier to play, then everyone will use it regardless of whether they like it or not. You can't use adopt rate to judge if it's a good addition. How many people are grind failing the same leves over and over again because it's the best SP/hr, even though they hate doing them ad nauseam? Just because something makes the game easier to play doesn't make it fun.