I don't understand...

[Foo01]

Except not all mobs are sleepable, and a tank HAS to keep some form of AoE enmity on a group. Not just a single flash will do it. Just the healer healing normally will pull if that's all they do.

What AOE enmity does a GLA/PLD have in Tam-tata at level 17? So no they don't have to do AOE crap. Just slow it down. It is always the elitist speed runner that wants to force rush things and they is why they are always the problem.

Have you ever tanked or healed before?

I do both daily. And probably too much Brayflox HM no less see:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...03#post2145003

And I get 3 commendations regularly, just like last night on my iLevel85 SCH, for full pull to top of the bridge speed run. I know how the crap works and I also know how it breaks. For some players you just got to ease up on the throttle to help them.

[OPneedNerfs]

What AOE enmity does a GLA/PLD have in Tam-tata at level 17? So no they don't have to do AOE crap. Just slow it down. It is always the elitist speed runner that wants to force rush things and they is why they are always the problem.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Flash

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/class/gladi...?ability=flash

http://xivdb.com/?skill/14/Flash

[ispano]

What AOE enmity does a GLA/PLD have in Tam-tata at level 17? So no they don't have to do AOE crap. Just slow it down. It is always the elitist speed runner that wants to force rush things and they is why they are always the problem.

They have Flash. And a Marauder has overpower AND can use Flash too. And yes they DO need to have SOME AoE enmity, otherwise the HEALER will be tanking. You DO know how enmity works from heals, don't you? I would hope so with you making arguments like that.

[Foo01]

They have Flash. And a Marauder has overpower AND can use Flash too. And yes they DO need to have SOME AoE enmity, otherwise the HEALER will be tanking. You DO know how enmity works from heals, don't you? I would hope so with you making arguments like that.

Flash works like crap at that level. Flash doesn't even begin to compare with overpower. And if the GLA/PLD needs to flash more that twice per pull on low level stuff like tam-tara then the rest of the group is not helping one bit. It is not the tanks job to manage all the enmity, it is a collective effort.

And there is no way flash can compete against level synced DPS with better gear, it just flat out does not work. Besides, at that level they are just learning their basic rotation, fast, savge, roh. Just doing that on one mob need about 5 secs. So just attack the target they are atttacking. Do not aggravate the situation with AOE crap. If flash twice and then get off one ROH chain on a single mob that is already 10 secs in to the engagment, it can't go any faster. So just ease up.

BTW I gladly tank a single mob that runs off of a tank. It is no big deal at that level. I can heal tank myself just fine. Or if I am using my SMN, titan or topaz can help. Or kite tank on my bard. It is ok to reduce the demand on the tank. It is definitely better than the cocky tank at that level that tries to pull 6 mobs and wipes everybody. It is ok to go slower. Elitist speed running stuff is the problem as it always have been.

The best advice to a new tank is: if the jerkwad DPS wants to grab aggro and they grab a mob, then they've bought it! Let them eat it. And don't stress over.

[ispano]

Flash works like crap at that level. Flash doesn't even begin to compare with overpower. And if need to flash more that twice per pull then the rest of the group is not helping one bit. It is not the tanks job to manage all the enmity, it is a collective effort.

You said it yourself, a collective effort. That means the tank, in this example, as well. I say it time and time again, EVERYONE needs to pull their weight and adjust to each other. NOT 1-3 or 1-7 people adjusting, but the last not. Coddling someone and saying that everyone else needs to adjust to him is wrong. If that ONE person does not feel like putting in the effort to try to hit a middle ground with the 3-7 other players in the group, THEY do not belong there. Again, EVERYONE. not MOST everyone.

[Odett]

Flash works like crap at that level. Flash doesn't even begin to compare with overpower. And if the GLA/PLD needs to flash more that twice per pull then the rest of the group is not helping one bit. It is not the tanks job to manage all the enmity, it is a collective effort.

At that level they are just learning their basic rotation, fast, savge, roh. Just doing that on one mob need about 5 secs. So just attack the target they are atttacking. Do not aggravate the situation with AOE crap

In Stone Vigil, with all the patrols, you usually WILL have to Flash more than twice. All you have to do is press one key/button that does not even break your combo.

For your second paragraph, even if both DPS attack what the tank is attacking (they should, and the tank should mark as well to make things clearer, see? collective effort), if a tank does not Flash more than once, then the healer will inevitably get enmity because that's what heals do, and this will happen much sooner if the healer has to heal more due to the tank not using their cooldowns.

[ispano]

In Stone Vigil, with all the patrols, you usually WILL have to Flash more than twice. All you have to do is press one key/button that does not even break your combo.

Not to mention, Stone Vigil is the first instance where the difficulty really does ramp up. And the tank, especially if minimally geared for the place, can take a lot of damage. Which means more healing, in turn making more enmity for the healer.

[Tiggy]

Flash works like crap at that level. Flash doesn't even begin to compare with overpower. And if the GLA/PLD needs to flash more that twice per pull on low level stuff like tam-tara then the rest of the group is not helping one bit. It is not the tanks job to manage all the enmity, it is a collective effort.

At that level they are just learning their basic rotation, fast, savge, roh. Just doing that on one mob need about 5 secs. So just attack the target they are atttacking. Do not aggravate the situation with AOE crap.

No but it is the tanks job to generate enough on all mobs so that a healer just doing their job of healing doesn't pull hate. That's a very simple and very basic aspect of the job. How can you possibly argue with that? Healing generates hate on every mob in the battle. That is an incontrovertible fact.

Flash working like crap doesn't change the fact that it IS AoE threat at the level you specified. It is enough to hold hate at that level. Who cares if you need to use it twice to get it to work. That's the way the skill is. That's the way it works. We are players have no choice but to use the tools given to us in order to complete content. If it means you flash twice so that healers won't rip hate then you need to flash twice. No amount of opinion or "playing the way I want" is going to change the math running at the core of this game. Math that doesn't give a damn about what's "fun" for you or how you want to play the game.

"The elitist attitude always point the fingers at someone else instead of adapting themselves first."

That goes both ways, you know. What's easier, barking at the healer and DPS telling them to adapt to your lack of enmity management and having three people expecting to adjust to you, who can't perform your role, or realize that you're losing enmity on group pulls and use Flash more than once?

Sadly the argument repeatedly put forth is that the three players should adapt to the poor player. Giving any advice is elitist. Trying to provide tips is elitist. Just let them play how they want. All this regardless of the negative effect the player is having on the group, or how politely you convey the information.