I don't understand...

[Kerberon]

Come again militant casuals? Seriously? Does this even make any sense? Casuals don't care enough to be militant, beligerent, or any these troll behaviors.

Wrong casual is a playstyle, militant is an attitude. edit* See the next post below as this quote gets twisted. Nothing is wrong with being casual, the problem is the combination of attitude and playstyle. Guess we've reached the point where the only thing left to try to argue with me about with this is to use politician's tricks to misquote and mislead.

There is nothing wrong. But want is "kindly giving advice" from your perspective is "angry orders or busy body nanny state" from another. So it is very subjective what counts as kindly advice and what is not offensive to others.

This is a perfect example of militantly casual. If you get offended by advice about your rotation as being angry orders or busy body nanny state, you are militantly casual.

Things need balance. Never giving polite advice when things are going badly is the opposite side of the guy that rages and swears at everyone when they make a mistake. It's out of balance and harmful. Let them play how they want no matter what is out of balance, and anything out of balance is harmful.

[Foo01]

Wrong casual is a playstyle....

Casual is playstyle is wrong? Says who?

... militant is an attitude. ...

Says the militant elitists attitudes. It is the elitist trying to force people to play their way their style that is the problem.

....Things need balance. ....

Sure but the balance you are talking about is completely bogus.

Never giving polite advice when things are going badly is the opposite side of the guy that rages and swears at everyone when they make a mistake....

Both the term "polite advice" and "going badly" are vague and subjective. So much for the false equivalence.

No one said never giving advice, no one is telling you to stfu and play. Wiping 15 times might be frustrating to a speed runner (where wiping once means rage quit for the elitist), but it is perfectly ok to casual players trying to figure it out. Not clearing content and running out of time on the first try is also perfectly fine. Uncalled for advice is not going to be well received, so called "polite" may not be so "polite" on the receiving end.

On the other hand being the elitist that rages at everyone else, that is absolutely uncalled for and absolutely not OK. It isn't about being militant (excluding trolls of course), it is about having a friendly environment for everyone to play the way they are comfortable with.

[Tiggy]

No one said never giving advice, no one is telling you to stfu and play.

Gormogon did. Can't forget his contribution to this discussion where any advice of any form was too much.
So yeah. Some people here are being exactly that ridiculous.

It's a balance between saying nothing and saying too much that must be achieved. All while being nice and not insulting about it.

[KingOfAbyss]

Both the term "polite advice" and "going badly" are vague and subjective. So much for the false equivalence.

No one said never giving advice, no one is telling you to stfu and play. Wiping 15 times might be frustrating to a speed runner (where wiping once means rage quit for the elitist), but it is perfectly ok to casual players trying to figure it out. Not clearing content and running out of time on the first try is also perfectly fine. Uncalled for advice is not going to be well received, so called "polite" may not be so "polite" on the receiving end.

On the other hand being the elitist that rages at everyone else, that is absolutely uncalled for and absolutely not OK. It isn't about being militant (excluding trolls of course), it is about having a friendly environment for everyone to play the way they are comfortable with.

Amen to that.

[ManweSulimo]

The best story I got is where I ended up in a stone vigil party with a tank that couldn't hold agro against even one of my fire IIs. The other dps and the healer tried to convince me that I should only be doing fire I cause it's more dps and I won't pull agro. So I said the tank needed to learn to hold agro and he said he wouldn't pull agro off me anymore so I died. And while I was walking back they banned together and votekicked me for not listening to them because they didn't believe me that fire II is better against mobs. Then I went to Haukke Manor and never pulled agro once using Fire IIs :P

[Foo01]

.... snip

The tank may have trouble with aggro so he wanted to attack single targets. The healer wants to keep things simple for the tank, so go slower don't AOE the group. They asked you nicely and you had to go get yourself vote kicked. Could the tank do better, maybe, but then again perhaps not at that time. It does not matter that another tank in Haukke can deal with it. It is all about learning to play together.

There was this one time I was playing the PLD in toto-rak and I had this BLM that claimed that he can be a better tank, after I asked him not to grab aggro while I was still marking targets. He refused to listen. After three attempts to get thru to him, I made him be tank and I switched to healing using cure on my PLD on every one else but the BLM, and he was left with kite tanking. He wanted to be in such a hurry to blow thru stuff and wouldn't allow people to work together. Well now it took twice as long. It is not always about doing it as fast as possible.

--------------------

He clearly states he does not need to 100% speed run. He also asks questions why certain jobs do so and so. I have yet to see the part where he damands things. Is his tone kind? I guess not. Do I understand his frustration? Yes.

I also understand his frustration. I know I have lost it myself in team play on things like SC/BW and SC2 when the same guy (real life friend no less) still can not hold against a 6-pool and then refuses to train with me where I can get him reps so he know exactly what to do and do it fast, but even there that is really not justified. So this being a MMO where players are encourage to play and be themselves and not have to deal with some high intensity high stress environment, the demand to optimize is clearly not the norm that should promoted. But what I see here in this thread are pro-elitist stances who think everyone must optimize like them and doing any else is like a crime. That attitude makes it no fun for a vast majority of players who are playing earnest and for fun but don't want to take it to that extreme.