I don't understand...

[Zhi]

I joined a party finder for Garuda as a tank and pulled , they didn't wait for me to use my combo 5 times before attacking and so they pulled and died. Ha serves those elitists right, then they had the audacity to say mean things to me like I forgot my shield, please I know how to play my class so I told them all to shove it. By the way what is shield oath?

[joab777]

You can run ur rotation without even trying. Its gotten to the point where I watch TV and still throw out shadowflare, the trifecta, contagion, bane etc. . If u r not doing that, u may not know what ur doin. Cuz, most ppl are tome grinding and hav dine it a gazillion x.

[Cap75]

What can you do when they are undergeared then? Vote abandon? Sometimes that is the only option. But often the group can work around it. The cool downs can only handle so much and then they are on cool down. Bad pulls, I don't know how you can repeated do bad pulls on stuff like SV or less. If there are no speed runners the pulls are always the smallest allowed. The tank does need any more pressure from the peanut gallery. I'd rather have the group find a working solutions then try to dictate or order around the tank that is already under duress.

Bad pulls=pulling more than you can handle. Which can happen when the tank isn't aware of patrol mobs. Anyway, if the tank is utterly hopeless and won't listen your options are kick or abandon, yes. I'm not going to spend an hour on something that should take half that time because somebody doesn't want to learn thier role. If they're receptive I'll stick around. Otherwise? I can be doing something else.

[Cap75]

This is so true. And they say it like it is just one or two more buttons. If were that easy, it would have already been done. Habits, routine, momemtum, knowledge (of/lack of) and whole slew of human factors is why they don't.

The bottom line is for people like the OP and threads like this: "why can't I find more players who play better like me?"

The answer is if they were better than you they don't want to play with you, the definition of the elitist ethos.

So what are you left with? Other players who can not be demanded to be so hardcore. So relax, get along, play for fun, not optimizing that last 0.x % of DPS.

That's such a straw man it's ridiculous. Nobody has said any such thing. There's a big difference between a player who doesn't know what they're doing but trying and a player who doesn't give a shit. This whole thread has been about the latter.

[Double]

These last few pages were pathetic and had almost nothing to do with what OP asked. Nothing more than personal attacks on other players here and people bringing up the most unrealistic analogies.

The most simple and effective way to avoid this is to make your own party.

Not playing up to par is subjective and the only viable defense I've seen thus far was OP's example of the BLM only casting two starter spells during the run. We can all agree that was more than likely the actions of a troll and not someone who went through -49 levels of content only to find every other spell vastly inferior to what you did for the first 10 levels.



Play the game properly and use Party Finder. You can even set the pre-requisites to be as serious and "optimized" as you like instead of crying why everyone in Duty Finder(The most uncontrollable tool in the game.) can't be like you.

There's no excuse and it doesn't take a 30 page thread to tell otherwise.

[Odett]

snip

Not playing up to par is definitely not subjective. If DPS aren't using core DPS skills, they're not playing up to par, if a healer keeps repeatedly letting the tank die and the tank is mitigating and it's only one batch of mobs, then the healer is not playing up to par. If a tank keeps dying from pulling too much, or if a healer is dying (provided they're not overhealing) because of enmity, then the tank isn't playing up to par.

You can't come to the conclusion that it was the action of a troll because I've come across MANY players just like that BLM that did not use core class skills and once I provided some advice, they actually took it and made an attempt to fix their rotation as the dungeon went on, which is very nice! Others have been very rude or just ignored me altogether. You can definitely go through 49 levels of content and not know a thing about your class if you don't read the skills, do FATEs, and only do the required story dungeons. Hell, getting to lv 50 means almost NOTHING because it is so easy to level up in this game compared to other MMOs, not to mention that classes don't feel "complete" until you get your lv 50 skills.

Play the game properly and use Party Finder. You can even set the pre-requisites to be as serious and "optimized" as you like instead of crying why everyone in Duty Finder(The most uncontrollable tool in the game.) can't be like you.

Why is DF not a "proper" way to play the game? There has been absolutely no one in this post that has forced someone to play like them. That right there is the argument made by people who think that putting in the least bit of effort is "optimizing".

[Double]

snip

What I said had nothing to do with cross-class skills or anything you typed, so I would hope you actually read what I typed instead of quoting with improper intentions.

Duty Finder is most certainly a way to play the game; It is most certainly not the place nor proper reference to state an subjective and undefined claim of players not being up to par with themselves.

You're backing OP and OP is asking why DUTY finder; something without pre-requisites, it can't be filled with more people like him.

Optimization in this context truly falls within eye of the beholder; there is no excuse to ever complain during duty finder. No matter how incompetent you may someone to be.

Party Finder is everything you, OP, and a great handful of people here want. Why NOT use it? I use it, my friends use it. We set pre-requisites every single time and we get results. What you're doing is trying to beat unwanted advice, spout nonsensical examples of why everyone else is wrong.

Edit: Last post in this thread. May the twelve help you all.

[Odett]

]snip

A) I have not said a single thing about cross class skills.

B) I just explained what not being up to par is

C) When you use Duty Finder, it's not expected that someone knows a fight. It is not expected that people will skip cutscenes (which new players who wish to view them have every right to do so) . It is definitely not expected that people will do speed runs. Is it nice when you get 3 other players that can do it? You bet, but players that try to force these will make a run longer than it could have been with regular pulls. If you want assurance on any of those things, that's exactly what PF is for. It can't be too much to expect people to perform their role, in DF, can it? The problem with the "if someone doesn't ask for advice, don't give it to them" mindset is that this is a social game. If someone is making the team wipe, or playing very poorly, and a player has a way to fix it, then they should always speak up. The "unwarranted advice should not be given" mindset encourages wipes and people not saying ANYTHING constructive in order to have a better run and just silently tackling a fight they just lost without changing or saying a single thing, and that's...well...insanity.

[captain_crunch]

Most of the time when I notice this it's not because the player doesn't know his/her class - it's most likely that they are just going through the motions hoping to get carried along while watching netflix or something. Doing nothing but spamming one or 2 buttons the entire fight. It's annoying, but honestly if its just the difference between a 15 minute run and a 20 minute one once a day I couldn't care less.

[Foo01]

Not playing up to par is definitely not subjective....

What is par is subjective. What is par to one is worse than par to another. That fact alone should be self-evident. For if the other player is not a troll or a bot, they are putting their earnest effort that is up to par.

....There has been absolutely no one in this post that has forced someone to play like them. That right there is the argument made by people who think that putting in the least bit of effort is "optimizing"....

Yet you argue you want people to play up to "par". Sure it is NOT technically "play like them" but it is certainly that they should put in that least bit effort so it will be like "what you like them to play".

....
....You've produced another straw man here. No one in this entire thread made any argument about optimizing the last few % of damage....

What I've written is not a straw man. BTW Gormogon is NOT a troll although not everyone agrees with him. And it is about optimizing and in the case of the DPS about that few % of damage if they could just press these 2 or 3 keys see what the OP has written:

...
I don't expect them to be on a "MLG" level, but I don't think it's too much to ask to just use a different strategy. I mean really, it's just 2 or 3 more buttons.

If all players only want to play with same or better players, and do not want to play with the lesser players, then how is anyone going to be playing together because you be hard pressed to find very name people exactly the "same" level. We all know where the elitists stands, but most of us are not elitist. Some of the players have good skill and are easily elite players, but they are not elitist, they gladly take lesser players under their wings and help them. So how about we ask, why do you put with lesser players and what is your tolerance level?