Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[PotatoTree]

I do not agree with this guy, and I think he is everything wrong with the game's population.

He basically wants crystal tower. Where "oh you messed up? Well we'll just raise you and we're good as new. la de dah". Thats BORING. Challenging mechanics where if you mess it up you DIE are fun. Because when you win, it doesn't feel like you just spent time in a long ass grind, it feels like you deserved it.

And people are complaining that you can do coil in lower tier gear if you can deal with the mechanics? READ THAT AS YOU CAN DO CONTENT IF YOU ARE SKILLED, NOT IF YOU ARE BUFFED OUT ON GEAR. Jesus, imagine if you were playing Starcraft and you started with double the workers because you had more "gear" compared to another player. NO. Ideally the game should be 100% skill based. Do you know how boring T4 is now that you can just faceroll it with crazy gear? Or T1 even. And this guy prides T1 and T4 as being awesome and T5 as bad because you actually need to do something in the turn? Is this a joke? Is this what mainstream players really want?

And he wants tokens for dungeon entries? Have any of you guys actually played 1.0 ffxiv? Collecting tapers and stuff for iffy was BORING. SO GODDAM BORING. Practising in coil is FUN. Because if you are not winning, it means it is HARD, so when you do win, you'll feel a sense of ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Please take your easy mode content and shove it elsewhere. Do not ruin the game for the rest of us who actually enjoy a challenge.

[Richiealvian]

I do not agree with this guy, and I think he is everything wrong with the game's population.

He basically wants crystal tower. Where "oh you messed up? Well we'll just raise you and we're good as new. la de dah". Thats BORING. Challenging mechanics where if you mess it up you DIE are fun. Because when you win, it doesn't feel like you just spent time in a long ass grind, it feels like you deserved it.

And people are complaining that you can do coil in lower tier gear if you can deal with the mechanics? READ THAT AS YOU CAN DO CONTENT IF YOU ARE SKILLED, NOT IF YOU ARE BUFFED OUT ON GEAR. Jesus, imagine if you were playing Starcraft and you started with double the workers because you had more "gear" compared to another player. NO. Ideally the game should be 100% skill based. Do you know how boring T4 is now that you can just faceroll it with crazy gear? Or T1 even. And this guy prides T1 and T4 as being awesome and T5 as bad because you actually need to do something in the turn? Is this a joke? Is this what mainstream players really want?

And he wants tokens for dungeon entries? Have any of you guys actually played 1.0 ffxiv? Collecting tapers and stuff for iffy was BORING. SO GODDAM BORING. Practising in coil is FUN. Because if you are not winning, it means it is HARD, so when you do win, you'll feel a sense of ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Please take your easy mode content and shove it elsewhere. Do not ruin the game for the rest of us who actually enjoy a challenge.

As much as I'd love to say you are correct, however a game is entirely dependant on the people paying for it. It would be fun for you and me, but for most people, let's take for example if my dad were to play this game (he used to play a lot of games back then) he would get stuck in coils for months, maybe years because of the amount of time spent committed to other things. Not everyone can play 3+ hours everyday, and they are contributing just as much as you and me in terms of game subscription.

And also beating the highest content to see the story or simply wanting to win it one day is something that the masses want, too.

It is sad however, that if those players don't get what they want they will simply quit. You might say "good riddance", you don't want to put in the effort but want the rewards, now shoo! but for Square Enix it is unfortunately not so!

I personally think between hardcore and casual content they are doing very amazingly in terms that if you are stuck, you have the echo next patch to look forward to. You also have non-battle or easy battle content such as treasure hunt or grinds like animus. What I think is needed is simply more happy content, like mini games.

[ZReport]

I do not agree with this guy, and I think he is everything wrong with the game's population.

He basically wants crystal tower. Where "oh you messed up? Well we'll just raise you and we're good as new. la de dah". Thats BORING. Challenging mechanics where if you mess it up you DIE are fun. Because when you win, it doesn't feel like you just spent time in a long ass grind, it feels like you deserved it.

And people are complaining that you can do coil in lower tier gear if you can deal with the mechanics? READ THAT AS YOU CAN DO CONTENT IF YOU ARE SKILLED, NOT IF YOU ARE BUFFED OUT ON GEAR. Jesus, imagine if you were playing Starcraft and you started with double the workers because you had more "gear" compared to another player. NO. Ideally the game should be 100% skill based. Do you know how boring T4 is now that you can just faceroll it with crazy gear? Or T1 even. And this guy prides T1 and T4 as being awesome and T5 as bad because you actually need to do something in the turn? Is this a joke? Is this what mainstream players really want?

And he wants tokens for dungeon entries? Have any of you guys actually played 1.0 ffxiv? Collecting tapers and stuff for iffy was BORING. SO GODDAM BORING. Practising in coil is FUN. Because if you are not winning, it means it is HARD, so when you do win, you'll feel a sense of ACCOMPLISHMENT.

Please take your easy mode content and shove it elsewhere. Do not ruin the game for the rest of us who actually enjoy a challenge.

I did not interpret it in this way. I think he's looking for a middle ground and more of a diversified field of various types of fights, instead of just excessively hard or excessively easy (which is the current). He made it a note to constantly mention that it's fights against mechanics instead of just general "tough" fights that existed in FFXI. To that end it limits the playing field of who you want to go with. Do you want to go with your best friend, whos awesome as a person but really bad at the game? Or do you want to go with your LS/FC mate who you barely know, but know him or her to be amazing at dodging mechanics and good at their role? Of course you will want to go with the person who knows how to dodge things, because you want to win. In short, the further the game moves into higher and higher difficulty, the further away it moves from being social-friendly environment. Keep in mind he made mention of him having successes in Second Coil, so it's not like he's completely devoid of care when it comes to doing hardcore content.

Tell you what though, I completely agree with you on T4. That fight was fun as hell to tackle during 2.0~2.1, because of how well everyone had to be on point to ensure success. Essentially it became a fight where gear did not matter at all outside of a simple DPS check. Now you can simply faceroll it with gear and obtain easy reward.

[Garlyle]

Tell you what though, I completely agree with you on T4. That fight was fun as hell to tackle during 2.0~2.1, because of how well everyone had to be on point to ensure success. Essentially it became a fight where gear did not matter at all outside of a simple DPS check. Now you can simply faceroll it with gear and obtain easy reward.

That's kinda the trick though, isn't it? There's no mechanics you Absolutely Must deal with, so the mechanics that do exist can be increasingly ignored as gear and general power continue to increase, and slowly the fight will lose identity, and ultimately challenge.

[ZReport]

That's kinda the trick though, isn't it? There's no mechanics you Absolutely Must deal with, so the mechanics that do exist can be increasingly ignored as gear and general power continue to increase, and slowly the fight will lose identity, and ultimately challenge.

Indeed. But we both knew this would happen as a by-product of an advancing MMO regardless of the current scenario. Fights will always become outdated in time, due to increasing iLvl and echo-like buffs, which is fine. In the case of T4, the challenge for those who did it in the 5-7 month time span before 2.2 had run it's course, and in most cases throughly (which is why I enjoyed it when I did). In time even T5 which has been thrice nerfed (including Echo buff) will simply be outdated by iLevel as well.

I can fully agree with anyone's sentiments who rushed content before it was nerfed, because the true challenge laid in beating that content within the confines on the current system in play. However, it's refreshing to know that Yoshi-P will continue to deliver more challenges in the future with increasing difficulty. There will always be something new over the horizon that puts your previous hard earned gear to work.

[Garlyle]

Indeed. But we both knew this would happen as a by-product of an advancing MMO regardless of the current scenario. Fights will always become outdated in time, due to increasing iLvl and echo-like buffs, which is fine. In the case of T4, the challenge for those who did it in the 5-7 month time span before 2.2 had run it's course, and in most cases throughly (which is why I enjoyed it when I did). In time even T5 which has been thrice nerfed (including Echo buff) will simply be outdated by iLevel as well.

Yes, but there's a drastic difference between how long it's going to take T4 to be little more than high powered mobs, and how long it's going to take T5 to be little more than that.

To side-example, as gear increases, more during Titan EX will be ignorable - you can eat more plumes in a bad dodge, you can eat bombs without fear of being KO'd; eventually you may even be able to survive superbombs -> geocrush. More DPS will push phases faster, reducing the amount of time you have to screw it up. That's inevitable, although they're still severe enough that it'll be a while before that happens. And there will always be parts of Titan EX you have to deal with - gaols and landslides. And that will retain Titan EX as a challenge to many people when that happens. And it will retain Titan's identity as a unique piece of content at that time, instead of just fading into mountains of identical trials.

[ZReport]

Yes, but there's a drastic difference between how long it's going to take T4 to be little more than high powered mobs, and how long it's going to take T5 to be little more than that.

To side-example, as gear increases, more during Titan EX will be ignorable - you can eat more plumes in a bad dodge, you can eat bombs without fear of being KO'd; eventually you may even be able to survive superbombs -> geocrush. More DPS will push phases faster, reducing the amount of time you have to screw it up. That's inevitable, although they're still severe enough that it'll be a while before that happens. And there will always be parts of Titan EX you have to deal with - gaols and landslides. And that will retain Titan EX as a challenge to many people when that happens. And it will retain Titan's identity as a unique piece of content at that time, instead of just fading into mountains of identical trials.

I agree wholeheartly to your sentiments, so much so that I posted a very similar response to you on page 4, lol. To that end, it's fine as well; the "challenge" is still preserved for a while longer for certain fights (Titan EX, T5) -- the win will be justified for anyone involved who is relatively new to said fight. More gear does trivalize the fight somewhat, but as you mentioned, it only trvializes the portions that players should have otherwise been able to dodge regardless. The real challenges will still be around, completely ignoring your iLvl/Echo.

However, I do believe it will get to a point where even these fights can be carried, or at least in the case of T5 recoveries mid-battle recovery from partial wipes will become possible. It will then become fights based on actions of a few who are super geared and can dodge everything, therefore carrying the rest of the party who was otherwise knocked out for a time. Biggest example being Titan HM, even before the Echo addition. A very geared tank, healer and two DPS can carry four others in that fight now. Of course the scenario would change in Titan EX, two over geared tanks, healer, 2-3 DPS, effectively limiting the carry to about 2-3 people.