Current State of End-Game Contents - A Blog Post from A Japanese Player

[Souljacker]

SE is going through some growing pains. If you have played other games, you will realize that mechanics are an interesting and integral part of a fight. A boss is a boss because he or she is a lot stronger and has interesting moves than your basic regular monster. This is why we want to fight the bosses. I do agree, however, that there is a balance to be struck.

This is what I mean.


1. Insta-death mechanics are a bad idea on all but maybe the very final boss of a lengthy, multi-wing raid. Difficulty should progress until this one ultimate boss, and then the difficulty should be figuring out how to avoid or compensate for the attacks.
That brings into number 2
2. Mechanics do not have to be forgiving, but they *should* be implemented in such a way that if one person makes a mistake, the rest of the raid can change their strategy to compensate and bring everyone back to that equilibrium. This is a dynamic environment that you cannot have if one person experienced a brief lag spike and cannot avoid a ground effect.


3. The mechanics should be INTERESTING. There is SO MUCH of strafe out of this, mouse turn and run out of that, etc. Ground effects should supplement the changing dynamics of the fight, but some fights are literally just "don't stand in bad" and that's not a particularly challenging OR interesting boss battle.

SE has some work to do, but in their defense they do also have a lot of really interesting fights. Garuda is one example of an excellently executed multi-phase fight, although it does seep into that "this happens at this time you do this over and over" aspect that the OP was talking about. Still, there will always be some measure of repetition.

I think that we should give SE some time to find their niche in terms of putting together engaging and challenging end game. This is their first truly modern mmo and while many of us have already seen these growing pains over the last decade or so, SE does like to try reinventing the wheel first and what is mainstream second.

[Rose_Vilehart]

It seem that after all the long winded discussion and all the debate, the bottom line is people don't like to have everything riding on instant kill gimmicks.

Well consider titan. How about we throw on RNG into that instant kill move, maybe 30% of the time, in exchange for a player being knocked off, the player is feared/stunned/hysteria/whatever and titan gains back 1/8 of its health for every player hit. And if the health goes back over the 50% you go back to pre-heart phase.

Would a simple change like that be acceptable?

If so then you can extrapolate this into many of the other 1-hit kill mechanics in any other dungeons.

Ok this i don't mind because it doesn't affect the actual consequences of the death it just stops titan from being able to 1 shot you

i assume bard is your main class... i havent started with second coil yet, because i wanted to save myself the headache, but before the echo nerfs healing in endgame sometimes was like pure gambling. will i neglect this dps and risk the group to wipe to a dps check if he falls or will i heal him and risk the tank to be sqished by the next attack and it's another insta-wipe? there's a lot of this BS going on and the less experienced the group is, the less damage is predictable. there's no room for improvement or recovery if you make a wrong decision.

also, let me help you carry your monstrous virtual manhood, because obviously everyone else is just incompetent casual filth. *rolls eyes*

im a woman i dont have manhood.
and no i wasn't stroking my metaphorical dick there i was being serious i suck at managing myself and party in mmos but i can still recover quite nicely a large amount of time, why then is everyone else acting like this game is ridiculously unfair and too hard for words?

SE is going through some growing pains. If you have played other games, you will realize that mechanics are an interesting and integral part of a fight. A boss is a boss because he or she is a lot stronger and has interesting moves than your basic regular monster. This is why we want to fight the bosses. I do agree, however, that there is a balance to be struck.

This is what I mean.


1. Insta-death mechanics are a bad idea on all but maybe the very final boss of a lengthy, multi-wing raid. Difficulty should progress until this one ultimate boss, and then the difficulty should be figuring out how to avoid or compensate for the attacks.
That brings into number 2
2. Mechanics do not have to be forgiving, but they *should* be implemented in such a way that if one person makes a mistake, the rest of the raid can change their strategy to compensate and bring everyone back to that equilibrium. This is a dynamic environment that you cannot have if one person experienced a brief lag spike and cannot avoid a ground effect.


3. The mechanics should be INTERESTING. There is SO MUCH of strafe out of this, mouse turn and run out of that, etc. Ground effects should supplement the changing dynamics of the fight, but some fights are literally just "don't stand in bad" and that's not a particularly challenging OR interesting boss battle.

SE has some work to do, but in their defense they do also have a lot of really interesting fights. Garuda is one example of an excellently executed multi-phase fight, although it does seep into that "this happens at this time you do this over and over" aspect that the OP was talking about. Still, there will always be some measure of repetition.

I think that we should give SE some time to find their niche in terms of putting together engaging and challenging end game. This is their first truly modern mmo and while many of us have already seen these growing pains over the last decade or so, SE does like to try reinventing the wheel first and what is mainstream second.

excellent post good sir/madame take my likes, this kind of balance is the kind of suggestion i like and does not degrade the game

[Mapleine]

It seem that after all the long winded discussion and all the debate, the bottom line is people don't like to have everything riding on instant kill gimmicks.

Well consider titan. How about we throw on RNG into that instant kill move, maybe 30% of the time, in exchange for a player being knocked off, the player is feared/stunned/hysteria/whatever and titan gains back 1/8 of its health for every player hit. And if the health goes back over the 50% you go back to pre-heart phase.

Would a simple change like that be acceptable?

If so then you can extrapolate this into many of the other 1-hit kill mechanics in any other dungeons.

Honestly, as smarmy as it might sound, Titan is arguably the single best designed fight in this game and I wouldn't touch it at all. It's in my top five favorite MMO bosses despite being relatively easy compared to my other picks. When you get down to it the "one shot" mechanics are rarely the things that get you in the more meaningful fights in XIV, it's often small breakdowns, personal flubs, resource management, etc, they're almost never the core hurdle.

I wouldn't mind seeing difficulty mode and other things that make changes like this to ease other types of players in, right now the curve is admittedly set to brick wall and the laddering is a bit poor but I really don't want to see the challenge ripped down without something to compensate. I'd love to see better itemization and the such layered on top, not have the games encounters taken down a peg to allow a path for awkward XI style gearing and macro spam.

[Clavaat]

Mechanics are tight but it's to make up for the simplicity in formation and customization and gearing. This game has no mechanics or leg-work outside of actual combat.

I think what the OP is getting at, and what I would have to agree a bit with, would be to have more a balance with this aspect. I would like a bit more number-crunching or variety in viable gear choices (to their credit, this last patch added a lot in that regard). And really, what that would come down to, is more options. Currently, the selection of weapons and the way in which to obtain those weapons is awesome. Definitely would like to see more of this. But that would help continue to create a balance. Don't have time but a lot of skill? Option A. Have a lot of time, but not a lot of skill? Option B. Etc.

[IgnisFatuus]

i was being serious i suck at managing myself and party in mmos but i can still recover quite nicely a large amount of time, why then is everyone else acting like this game is ridiculously unfair and too hard for words?

we need to differentiate a bit here. not everything is unfair and "too hard". mostly, it's those hoops you have to get 7 other people to do perfectly in a 1-2 second span and neither your gear or anything else matters. if one person messes up, BOOM, and you potentially wasted another 10 minutes of your life.

on a personal note, I find it absolutely ridiculous to have to watch 15 minute videos to just "get" the mechanics of a fight, because theyre so impossibly obscure or tightly scripted that you can't just learn them by doing without 7 other people spitting venom at you. i'm very oldschool about that. watch video or GTFO is making me ask "why do i play this again".

[ApolloGenX]

OP nailed it.

Lots of fights I just don't care about or won't bother with.. and gear is pointless... if you can't dodge mechanics. So is echo. I've never played a game with so much pointless content that as a casual I won't even bother with trying.

When they come out with new content, you just re-sub, complete it and cancel. There's zero longevity here.

Even quests are pointless... I can play in a DF group and no one has atma/animus or is wasting time on it, because it's pointless and not worth the effort.

Edit to below- Yes this ignores content that is not actually in the game. If they are adding fun casual stuff, that's good. I will reserve making an opinion on unreleased content until it's delivered for play.

[Rose_Vilehart]

we need to differentiate a bit here. not everything is unfair and "too hard". mostly, it's those hoops you have to get 7 other people to do perfectly in a 1-2 second span and neither your gear or anything else matters. if one person messes up, BOOM, and you potentially wasted another 10 minutes of your life.

on a personal note, I find it absolutely ridiculous to have to watch 15 minute videos to just "get" the mechanics of a fight, because theyre so impossibly obscure or tightly scripted that you can't just learn them by doing without 7 other people spitting venom at you. i'm very oldschool about that. watch video or GTFO is making me ask "why do i play this again".

seriously wtf game are you even playing at this point? learning the mechanics is not that hard, you dont have to do it perfectly and 1 mistake will not cost you the entire fight even on the hardest fights.

On a side note: anyone notice how the most boring fights are the ones without mechanics that you oh so hate? like the first boss of AK?

*snip*

im assuming this post is ignoring all the casual content they are adding in 2.3+?

[Mapleine]

on a personal note, I find it absolutely ridiculous to have to watch 15 minute videos to just "get" the mechanics of a fight, because theyre so impossibly obscure or tightly scripted that you can't just learn them by doing without 7 other people spitting venom at you. i'm very oldschool about that. watch video or GTFO is making me ask "why do i play this again".

Because without having a tight, interesting puzzle box of an encounter they're almost always dropped within a single night by any group of merit. There needs to be more done to educate outside of videos (which other games do) but the learning curve is what it is unless this entire genre decides to stop latching on to WoW (which, while I like WoW, I'd have like to have seen awhile ago)

The only other solution is vague, EQ-style sinks, which is what the OP wants, what FFXI fans want, and want everyone else on Earth doesn't want.

[TopKatt]

I will say great post but I don't 100% agree with everything the OP said. Nor does this person represent me.

I like the 50+ dungeons more than the under 50. Even the ones that were grinded for tomes, if not more so. CM, WP, brayflox hm
I like the idea of people working together at a unexpected lvl of play to quickly achieve a goal. I like the idea that not everyone can do it.

I like the idea of once I couldn't do it, now I know how, its not random and I can continue to do it, and teach others.

I also don't mind the idea of echo. sry

[Cap75]

People dont even have the skill to simply memorize and dodge how the hell are they going to manage all that. There will be alot more frustrations. lol

Most people react far better than they memorize and enjoy reactive dynamics moreso, hence the extreme popularity of shooters in general and online shooters specifically. And more options allow people to customize their playstyle to something that suits them. Those more adept players in the group can cover the mistakes of others, even if it may drag out the fight. Too many mistakes should always mean certain failure of course but variance would be nice and more thinking on your feet, as opposed to simply executing the same strategy each time, is something i think a lot of people would welcome.