When to use Flare?

[Maero]

Umm not familiar,really? I have spent a great deal of time as others have testing different rotations.
I only flare after my mana is low and if you actually think there is no dps loss doing flare after transpose well just ask other blm's that have been at it for a while, you will see that their is a loss of dps indeed if casting flare after transpose.
And i do not do 2x flares i do 3x flares which is far more potent then 2x flares, and more then 3 flares as was posted is also a loss of dps.
Not trying to be rude but do some testing and see the results, test dummies is not the best way of getting numbers, it helps but some on the blm rotation post i think have tested using parsers
Not saying your beginning aoe rotation is wrong at all as others do it so as well, but again the transpose> flare i do not agree about
Really at the end of the day do what you feel is best,if a rotation works for you then by all means use it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it better to stick to a single-target rotation if there are only 2 mobs?

Another time you can use flare is at the end of your single-target rotation if you have swiftcast & convert up. Of course you only want to do this if you don't need the swiftcast & convert up later for certain DPS checks.

I wouldn't say never use Fire 2, because some tanks simply can't handle Flare spam, unfortunately. You may have to use Fire 2's in situations where the tank can't handle you generating hate as quickly as you will using Flare spam.

And this ^

[NoctisUmbra]

Umm not familiar,really? I have spent a great deal of time as others have testing different rotations.
I only flare after my mana is low and if you actually think there is no dps loss doing flare after transpose well just ask other blm's that have been at it for a while, you will see that their is a loss of dps indeed if casting flare after transpose.
And i do not do 2x flares i do 3x flares which is far more potent then 2x flares, and more then 3 flares as was posted is also a loss of dps.
Not trying to be rude but do some testing and see the results, test dummies is not the best way of getting numbers, it helps but some on the blm rotation post i think have tested using parsers
Not saying your beginning aoe rotation is wrong at all as others do it so as well, but again the transpose> flare i do not agree about
Really at the end of the day do what you feel is best,if a rotation works for you then by all means use it.

What do you do after you Transpose in your AoE rotation then? Please, do tell.

If it involves Transpose > Blizzard (III) > Fire III > Fire II spam > Flare > Transpose then I'm sorry to break it to you but the double Flare rotation is superior DPS. The only way it would dip below the Fire II rotation is if you screw it up.

When I refer to the double Flare rotation, I do not mean the opening rotation where everybody would use 2-3 Flares with access to Convert and an Ether. I'm referring to the extended rotation, where you chose to use 2 Flares between your Transposes instead of using any single target spells or Fire II.

To be honest I think this is pretty bad advice.

I'm curious... why do you think this is bad advice?

[JetBrooks]

I'm curious... why do you think this is bad advice?

It's good advice for a perfect world with perfect players. I've encountered tanks that can't hold hate during flare spam. You can ask them to try and spam flash/overpower all you want, but if they can't hold hate, they can't hold hate.

Also, you may find yourself in a situation where one mob is going to die before the others, bringing the count down to 2 mobs. In this situation, I'd rather use a Fire 2 (one mob dies) and go into my single-target rotation for optimal DPS. Scenarios are too dynamic to say that you should only do one thing at all times.

Flare spam is friggin great when you can use it, though.

[NoctisUmbra]

It's good advice for a perfect world with perfect players. I've encountered tanks that can't hold hate during flare spam. You can ask them to try and spam flash/overpower all you want, but if they can't hold hate, they can't hold hate.

Also, you may find yourself in a situation where one mob is going to die before the others, bringing the count down to 2 mobs. In this situation, I'd rather use a Fire 2 (one mob dies) and go into my single-target rotation for optimal DPS. Scenarios are too dynamic to say that you should only do one thing at all times.

I guess if you're going to nitpick for hypothetical scenarios, especially ones that are fairly uncommon like the one you mentioned, then I suppose you can come up with a reason to use Fire II - though in a scenario such as that one I'd probably just switch to my single target rotation straight away and burn own the remaining two.

As for the tanks who can't hold hate scenario, that's not an excuse to use Fire II. Not even remotely. That's effectively busy work. If you get a tank in DF that has significantly lesser gear than you, sure this will force you to hold back on DPS (provided even Quelling Strikes isn't enough to keep you safe, which... that's pushing it since it should still be possible even with a reasonable gear difference). However, if the goal here is to reduce your DPS, why keep yourself busy using a lesser skill? May as well wait longer between Flares. Same effect.

In any other scenario, if I am expected to be doing an AoE rotation as a BLM, then the tank is expected to be holding AoE hate. It has all the tools, and no excuses. No, I will not play less effectively because the tank doesn't know how to play better. As a player who plays both tanks and all DPS jobs, I will take the time to figure out with said player why they are unable to maintain hate - which shouldn't be too hard because it will end with "spam Flash/Overpower".


Haven't seen a single reason yet to actually put Fire II on my bars

[scarebearz]

I'm curious... why do you think this is bad advice?

There are very few situations where this "double flare" is of any use at all.

AoE rotations are very situational, but for most cases, mobs should not be around long enough for you to empty mp - transpose - wait and hardcast 2 flares, let alone any more.

Take Bray first and 2nd pull for example:

If the party is decent:

1st pull:

RS - Fire III - Fire II x 1 or 2 (depending on party dps) - Flare - Mega Ether - SC - Flare

2nd pull:

RS - Fire III - Fire II x 1 or 2 (depending on party dps) - Flare - Convert - SC - Flare


If party dps is low:

1st pull:

Fire III - Fire II - Fire II - RS - Fire II - Flare - Convert - (Fire II only if SCH in party) - Flare - Mega Ether - SC - Flare

2nd pull:

Fire III - Fire II - Fire II - RS - Fire II - Flare - Convert - (Fire II only if SCH in party) - Flare - Mega Ether - SC - Flare

Still situational, but something like that is what I'd recommend.