Thief>Ninja/Dancer Class/Job

[Boots-365]

If you want thief then you would make thief a class and pugilist the secondary or vice versa the thief would do less damage directly and more drawn out damage like poison or fracture.

[Aeora]

Is no1 else wondering why it'd use Dex?

[Kitru]

Is no1 else wondering why it'd use Dex?

Because daggers are weapons that rely upon precision rather than brute force for the damage they deal. PGL/MNK could be argued to be about precision, but that's a combination of precision (finger strikes) and brute force (punches) with a lot more emphasis on straight up punching.

Also, rogue/thief/ninja using dexterity/agility for its damage is the standard set up in RPGs.

[Nahara]

Because daggers are weapons that rely upon precision rather than brute force for the damage they deal.

At the same time, STR is the melee physical damage stat and DEX is the ranged physical damage stat; it says so right there on the tool-tips when you hover over them. They have very clearly defined purposes and it seems way more efficient to just keep using STR as the melee physical damage stat, then to change DEX's purpose for a single class.

On top of that, you can't seriously expect someone to believe gear like the Ballad attire or the Shikaree attire are thematically-appropriate for a Rogue/Thief/Ninja.

[Kitru]

At the same time, STR is the melee physical damage stat and DEX is the ranged physical damage stat; it says so right there on the tool-tips when you hover over them. They have very clearly defined purposes and it seems way more efficient to just keep using STR as the melee physical damage stat, then to change DEX's purpose for a single class.

STR also increases block/parry value and DEX increases block/parry chance, but you don't see anyone telling WARs and PLDs to stack STR/DEX for tanking purposes so it's not as if a stat can't serve multiple purposes. On top of this, there are not separate attack values for melee and ranged attacks (not to mention that they're not even constant; Shield Lob, Tomahawk, and Piercing Talon are all quite obviously ranged attacks but they are based off of STR); there is simply "attack power" (melee/ranged is simply a tag a given ability is assigned to determine reaction to certain effects, similar to damage type). The stat governs your attack power is assigned effectively arbitrarily.

only reason that STR is the only stat mentioned to increase physical melee damage while DEX is the only one that affects ranged physical damage is because there isn't a class that uses DEX for melee attacks (yet); if it said "affects ranged physical damage and melee physical damage for some classes" when there wasn't a class that used DEX for melee attacks, it would make sense. As soon as they add one, however, it's entirely likely that they'll change the description to account for it (even if they change the description for that class/job only).

On top of that, you can't seriously expect someone to believe gear like the Ballad attire or the Shikaree attire are thematically-appropriate for a Rogue/Thief/Ninja.

I *don't* expect that gear to be THF/NIN gear. I expect the "current" (re: what you will actually be using as opposed to what we're using now) DEX generic gear to start looking less flamboyantly BRDy probably a tier before they add a new DEX class/job (the current DEX gear basically can look BRDy because, you know, it can only be worn by BRDs; it wouldn't work for MSK either and we're all pretty sure that'll be DEX as well; as soon as another class can wear it, they have to genericize it).

While leveling, STR and DEX use the same gear and, as soon as you hit 50, you start using class specific gear or visually generic gear (mercenary, noble's, darklight are all explicitly neutral in appearance). I would argue that Shikaree would be fine for a THF/NIN as well, mainly because it's no worse than what you could expect to wear while leveling (I honestly doubt that NIN gear will all be black garb and face masks), especially since it'll be such a low item level that it will be skipped/ignored even by BRDs (and if you want to bring up the Fuma or other THF/NIN-looking MNK gear, remember, it's already just vanity gear; they could put the THF/NIN tag on it just to give them the vanity option without doing anything about the stat; if *absolutely* required, they could throw DEX on it in the patch that adds THF/NIN since it's not really going to affect anything since it's not like MNK actually gets anything useful out of DEX).

The gear argument for the mainstat doesn't hold much water because it operates under the assumption that the gear we currently see is supposed to remain valid way on down the line, which it won't be. I seriously doubt they're going to add new THF/NIN or MSK gear to any old content mainly because it's largely wasted development resources since no one will wear it (for the stats) for very long, and you can already vanity yourself into gear that makes absolutely no sense for your job/role (ex. tanking in the Spring Dress). They'll likely just throw the class/job tags onto existing STR/DEX gear regardless of the stats or aesthetics (especially if it's gear that they expect people to downright insist on having for vanity) so that you can wear it for the stats for the week or so before you start getting the new "myth" gear (or use it for vanity even if it has completely inappropriate stats) and just focus on making the current gear it shares with whatever class(es) applicable to both/all.

It's entirely possible that they'll preempt this entire discussion completely and allow them to use the higher of their DEX or STR to determine their attack power: it has absolutely no effect while they're leveling and the devs can freely throw whatever tags they want to onto whatever gear is most aesthetically "appropriate", at which point the only way to determine what the "intended" main stat is would be looking at what the end game class-locked gear has on it.

As I see it, it all breaks down to the thematic: does it make more sense for THF/NIN to be burly/brawny fighters or for them to be precision/graceful fighters? Even if, as it stands, there isn't a way for DEX to affect melee attack power, I seriously doubt that they wouldn't just go and change whatever on the back end is stopping it in order to preserve said theme.

[Nahara]

Looks like Thief is off the table.

Rogue is the class, Ninja is the job, and both work like NOTHING we were anticipating.

[Exstal]

I guess it's time to change my sig quote..

[OmegaNovaios]

I honestly didn't see THF being a class anyway, it's technically a job name and when it is implemented it will probably be the 2nd job to Rogue.

Then again THF may or may not be implemented anytime soon as it might not have very much to offer at this point in time unless SE has already spent resources into but just hasn't announced it yet.

[Nahara]

Then again THF may or may not be implemented anytime soon as it might not have very much to offer at this point in time unless SE has already spent resources into but just hasn't announced it yet.

Going by what was said in the live letter, it'd doubtful the THF will ever be implemented into the game at this point, as the whole backstory of the Rogues are that they were thieves who have since come together to become something more. I am okay with this and greatly look forward to the Rogue/Ninja.

[Mimilu]

I see it as that we got Thief as a class, it's just got a different name. And it's going to be DEX-based. >w>