Acceptable Cash Shop Items: Suggestions!

[Taruranto]

How so if the same level [as we have been getting] of vanity items are still being released with in-game content?

You really don't get it, don't you? They are not gonna create items especially for the cash shop, they are going to make items that would be available in game "for free" (to buy with gil/get with quests, etc) into the cash shop instead. Minions like bluebird or the opo-opo would be cash-shopped instead.

[Skull_Angel]

You really don't get it, don't you? They are not gonna create items especially for the cash shop, they are going to make items that would be available in game "for free" (to buy with gil/get with quests, etc) into the cash shop instead. Minions like bluebird or the opo-opo would be cash-shopped instead.

I get it completely, it seems to be "Do you know how they would implement this? Because there are right and wrong ways to do it." v. "OMG! I know they are going to do it like this and completely screw us all over!". I'm simply arguing that if they do decide to implement a cash shop and offer vanity items along side what vanity items they already release and continue to release, what is the issue?

[OMEGAlomania]

what is the issue?

I'll reiterate, since you somehow still don't seem to get it. Entire loot tables and big sections of some professions in this game have either been reduced to, or have been designed around providing items that are only usefull as vanity. Meaning vanity = content. Taking vanity or any other content out of the game (- expansion content) and putting it behind a seperate paywall beyond my subscription is the shittiest of shit moves that they could pull. It's greedy. It shows contempt to the player, and it's milking us for every spare bit of money that they possibly can. That's "the issue".

If they have a cash shop they won't have my sub fee. End of story.

[Skull_Angel]

I'll reiterate, since you somehow still don't seem to get it. Entire loot tables and big sections of some professions in this game have either been reduced to, or have been designed around providing items that are only usefull as vanity. Meaning vanity = content. Taking vanity or any other content out of the game (- expansion content) and putting it behind a seperate paywall beyond my subscription is the shittiest of shit moves that they could pull. It's greedy. It shows contempt to the player, and it's milking us for every spare bit of money that they possibly can. That's "the issue".

If they have a cash shop they won't have my sub fee. End of story.

I get it completely, it seems to be tied to selective reading. All I keep hearing is that a vanity based cash shop will remove items from the game and that being the end of it. My question was that if it doesn't remove vanity items from the game that would/will already be added and instead provides more, where is the issue?

[Ikeda]

I get it completely, it seems to be "Do you know how they would implement this? Because there are right and wrong ways to do it." v. "OMG! I know they are going to do it like this and completely screw us all over!". I'm simply arguing that if they do decide to implement a cash shop and offer vanity items along side what vanity items they already release and continue to release, what is the issue?

1. Have you ever seen a mmo implement a vanity cash shop like that where the "free" vanity items didn't look like crap compared to the ones in the cash shop? 2. Get it through your thick freaking skull. People play P2P mmos to AVOID CASH SHOPS. The second it even looks like a cash shop will be added to this game I can guarantee you the subscription numbers would plummet until the game isn't sustainable as a P2P game anymore. It happens every freaking time. You fools are practically begging SE to make a very stupid decision that would kill off their game.

SE isn't some freaking juggernaut company like Blizzard or Activision or EA. They're a company that people have been slowly losing faith in since the PS2 era. They would never be able to get away with a double dipping cash grab stunt like that.

Also please show the the section of official gaming law where it states it's illegal for P2P games to have cash shops.

Gamers made it unofficially illegal. They've abandoned every single P2P mmo that dared to try to have a double dipping cash shop by the hundreds of thousands or millions and have caused every single one of them to dumb down and go F2P or shut down entirely. The only reason WoW has survived it is because it had so many players there were still enough players left for it to be profitable. FFXIV only has about 1 mill subscribers at most. It wouldn't survive the inevitable massive loss of subscriptions it would cause.

[Skull_Angel]

1. Have you ever seen a mmo implement a vanity cash shop like that where the "free" vanity items didn't look like crap compared to the ones in the cash shop? 2. Get it through your thick freaking skull. People play P2P mmos to AVOID CASH SHOPS. The second it even looks like a cash shop will be added to this game I can guarantee you the subscription numbers would plummet until the game isn't sustainable as a P2P game anymore. It happens every freaking time. You fools are practically begging SE to make a very stupid decision that would kill off their game.

SE isn't some freaking juggernaut company like Blizzard or Activision or EA. They're a company that people have been slowly losing faith in since the PS2 era. They would never be able to get away with a double dipping cash grab stunt like that.

Yeah, and this may come as a surprise, but WoW. In this case the "free" vanity items would be mounts and minions, but they do not exactly look like "crap" compared to the ones on their cash shop (opinions may vary).

I'd also argue that people do not play P2P games to avoid cash shops, they do it to ensure the games they are playing continue to get quality developer support and improvements.

All negative arguments seem to be from people that harbor animosity towards cash shops that have been done wrong or poorly with no sound backing to their claim of why it can't be done right. I clearly must be missing something because every argument against my question goes off on some stalwart crusade about how terrible cash shops are.

[Skull_Angel]

snip

Without knowing every game you point your finger at, I'll add this; many P2P MMOs have ended up failing somewhere along the line and their developer ended up adding a cash shop with massive P2W elements after reviewing their projected earnings in an attempt to recoup some of their losses. In a lot of instances this effectively worked to break even financially, but because of the way it was done the games lost too many subscriptions to keep a P2P model and inevitably went B2P with massive cash shops if not completely tanked. Few MMOs/games come to mind where the later implementation of a cash shop caused the game to tank, but this again was caused by the inclusion of mass P2W elements.

Again, no one has really addressed my question, only vehemently stated that "cash shops are evil!". What's the issue if it can be done right?

[Kerberon]

Again, no one has really addressed my question, only vehemently stated that "cash shops are evil!". What's the issue if it can be done right?

That it is impossible to do right. Asking if it can be done right is like asking if dumping toxic waste barrels into a stream in the dead of night can be done right.

[Skull_Angel]

That it is impossible to do right. Asking if it can be done right is like asking if dumping toxic waste barrels into a stream in the dead of night can be done right.

Please elaborate because you have me curious. We all know adding P2W elements to a cash shop will negatively effect a game's community, but why/how will adding aesthetic options? We already have server transfers that allow you or your friend(s) to play together should you originally be on different servers, but it can also be abused by players with the "scam and dash". We'll soon have Fantasias as well for those players that like to try different things or are never happy with choices they make.

edit; I forgot about the infamous extra retainers you can buy with an additional subscription, I can't really get behind that one.

[Gormogon]

That it is impossible to do right. Asking if it can be done right is like asking if dumping toxic waste barrels into a stream in the dead of night can be done right.

by "being done right" it means we have to place expectations on "corruption" and segregation not having a role.

Currently we have

Retainers. This is an advantage over those that do not purchase retainers. To the degree this advantage is becomes subjective and questionable.

We are getting Fantasia soon

Fantasia does not grant a massive advantage. Personally I think someone literally needs to be insane to buy Fantasia constantly to keep switching between races just to have that small stat advantage when they raid which I really doubt people will do and even if they did the advantage isn't that high.

Yet if a cash shop was introduced what are gonna get denied in return for simply not decided to toss real life money around?

Minions?
Mounts?
Vanity?
Hairstyles?

In which, how is this morally "good" to those that don't have the money or don't want to waste the money for it?