Bards and BLMs ... is hard to control your aggro?

[Nayto]

My plan is simple: once my WAR is 50, I will use BRD or SMN to farm Soldiery tomes, this way before I even set foot in a lvl 50 dungeon, I will have all my weathered gear/accessories for tank. So far I have not had any problems holding hate, I keep as much of my gear HQ as possible, and always a up to date weapon. I am only 39 though, so I think I have yet to hit the paces where holding hate is going to be an issue. ilvl72 is good, but if you have another job that can farm tomes, then there should be no reason you cant be 90 or better....and yes, I get it if you want to do lvl 50 dungeons in DL or to get DL, that's fine. just know that most of the time, the DPS are going to be geared to the teeth, and that's not something I care to face...

Could always just do CT and be a lolbuttonpusher tank.

[blowfin]

I know how to use it, actually. I just prefer not to. I've never had complaints and it really makes little to no difference. I rarely have to autoattack because I don't really ever take aggro. You seem to be under the assumption that I use it all the time.

You understand that autoattacking isn't good for your DPS though, right? And that pre-emptively using Quelling Strikes will help you avoid having to do that, regardless of how rare the situation is?

[ROFL-kopter89]

As a iLvl.86 BLM, I tend to tend hate from the tank on some levels fairly easily. If my hate bar starts getting too high, I either tone my attacks down or switch target to another one tank has established hate on. I'm currently levelling up an ARC as one of my alts, so I'll have Quelling Strikes in 7 more levels to help reduce it. I only really use Raging Strikes against bosses.

[Diavolo]

You understand that autoattacking isn't good for your DPS though, right? And that pre-emptively using Quelling Strikes will help you avoid having to do that, regardless of how rare the situation is?

I'm aware of how it works. I'm not one of those anal asshats that sits there and measures my DPS to gauge how good/bad I'm doing, though. It's a game, If I have fun by popping off a few autoattacks on the rare occasion, that's my prerogative. I pay my sub just like you pay yours. It's not harming anyone.

[Gilraen]

Um, using Quelling Strikes to mitigate your threat generation is BRD and BLM 101. It basically allows you do to more damage without making life difficult for the tank and healer. Not using it is a sign of being bad. There's basically no reason that you shouldn't be using it as often as you can, weaved in between a GCD when it's available and appropriate.



As above, you're not reaching full your damage potential by doing that. Learn to love it, learn to use it appropriately. Realise that it allows you do more DPS, and therefore helps everyone.

You do realize that partying is a team effort, right? It's not always about putting out the big numbers, sometimes not putting out the big numbers can be every bit as helpful. You have to gauge the situation to see if going all out is a good idea or not. And if it's not, then it's just as vital that you don't. People have this idea in this game that DDs are balls-to-the-wall idiots that ignore the party situation and your comments don't really dissuade this viewpoint. I mean, this very thread is based on that view...

[Raenryong]

S/he's not saying you're an awful person or that you shouldn't be allowed to play how you want though. You just said that Quelling Strikes "makes little to no difference", while Blowfin (quite rightly) suggests that it can actually be an indirect DPS boost situationally as it prevents you having to moderate your threat (and in doing so, lose DPS).

You do realize that partying is a team effort, right? It's not always about putting out the big numbers, sometimes not putting out the big numbers can be every bit as helpful. You have to gauge the situation to see if going all out is a good idea or not. And if it's not, then it's just as vital that you don't. People have this idea in this game that DDs are balls-to-the-wall idiots that ignore the party situation and your comments don't really dissuade this viewpoint. I mean, this very thread is based on that view...

It is a team effort, and a DPS's role within that team is to do the maximum amount of damage possible without failing a mechanic, dying, or pulling threat (normally). Therefore, you want to be pumping out as much damage as possible without failing in one of those three ways - and Quelling Strikes is a great boon to the last of the three.

[Diavolo]

S/he's not saying you're an awful person or that you shouldn't be allowed to play how you want though. You just said that Quelling Strikes "makes little to no difference", while Blowfin (quite rightly) suggests that it can actually be an indirect DPS boost situationally as it prevents you having to moderate your threat (and in doing so, lose DPS).

It is a team effort, and a DPS's role within that team is to do the maximum amount of damage possible without failing a mechanic, dying, or pulling threat (normally). Therefore, you want to be pumping out as much damage as possible without failing in one of those three ways - and Quelling Strikes is a great boon to the last of the three.

I didn't say they said I was awful. I more or less said that I know how it works and I choose to play the game my way. Paying my sub allows me that right. I'm not sure how that wasn't clear.

So let me state for the umpteenth time: I KNOW HOW QUELLING STRIKES WORKS. I KNOW THE REPERCUSSIONS OF MY METHOD AND DO NOT CARE AS I LIKE PLAYING MY WAY. PLAYING MY WAY MAKES LITTLE TO NO DIFFERENCE. I HAVE WITNESSED BOTH METHODS. I HAVE USED BOTH METHODS. UNDERSTAND NOW?

I find it funny you say that last part though. Bard isn't strictly DPS. We are a weird support/DD hybrid that wasn't exactly fleshed out, imo. So DPS isn't always our main priority. Sometimes, we need to first SUPPORT others via songs, taking a hit to our damage dealing ability. By you, and apparently others' logic, that'd be "wrong."

[Gilraen]

Oddly enough, there's some fights in this game where going all out is bad. Like Caedecus (sp?) in Turn 1 where he and his clone have to die within moments of eachother or it's a wipe. Or Bone Dragon in Crystal Tower where if the dragon dies before the skeletons do it's going to hurt alot. Or Laeviathan Extreme, I've been reading that if you try to burn him down he goes into an enrage causing a wipe. That's just three fights where caution is more important than how hard you're hitting the wall. Three fights of varying degrees of difficulty.

[blowfin]

It is a team effort, and a DPS's role within that team is to do the maximum amount of damage possible without failing a mechanic, dying, or pulling threat (normally). Therefore, you want to be pumping out as much damage as possible without failing in one of those three ways - and Quelling Strikes is a great boon to the last of the three.

Yes, thank you, exactly.

[Raenryong]

snip

It is your right. But you are saying that it makes little to no difference, while conceding that it can lead to you sacrificing DPS. That is what I have a problem with. If a MNK wants to stop attacking for a few seconds to stretch his or her arms, they're allowed to... but I certainly wouldn't try to defend it.

Bard is definitely a DPS. You spend more time DPSing than you do supporting. The best way to play Bard is to support the exact amount that is required - however, it is often best to err on the side of caution as far as Ballad is concerned. Throwing up Requiem at the best times while you have MP to spare is also optimal play, even if it sacrifices a small amount of DPS on your part.

snip

Yeah, that is what I mean by failing a mechanic - obviously you don't want to DPS to the point you push something too hard. In lieu of that though, you should be doing whatever it takes to maximise your DPS without neglecting your other duties. Such is your job as a DPS.

EDIT: To give you an idea, when I'm healing I often tell DPS to just ignore certain ground aoes and such and I'll heal them through it, especially if we're talking BLMs. In this way I can use free time on my healer to improve DPS more than just contributing my own damage would!

I'm not saying to only worry about DPS and do nothing else, but the very best play possible as a DPS involves losing as little as possible.