with this mindset the future looks dim

[Garlyle]

I guess the argument is really about DF in general. Using PF or a static, you can pretty much avoid this issue altogether.

I feel like this is it, at it's core.

People expect different things going into Duty Finder. Specifically for harder content, what I often hear is, "Duty Finder's for casual play, Party Finder's where you go when you want to clear". However, I think that especially as you aren't able to make that initial agreement over experience/intent, it should be the opposite - you should go into Duty Finder on hard content with your diligence done, because personally, I think you owe it to the others there. To at least be ready to go at it seriously, and make effort on your own end not to be the one holding everyone back.

I doubt I'm alone in that - but that's exactly what drives the wedge, is that there's two completely different viewpoints when it comes to that.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

And I can understand that. But I think the most important thing to note before diving into a DF is that everyone you meet there may have different goals and ideals. Having an expectation such as, "everyone here should have watched a video" is setting yourself up for disappointment. Maybe newer players didn't know that was an expectation. A lot of people are assuming "Oh you knew what you had to do. You just didn't because you're lazy." You gotta put yourself in other people's shoes. Through PF, you know what the goal is of everyone (assuming you set it up properly).

[Luxx]

.

I guess because the CS thing, if you're new, people kick you for watching the CS. Is that respectful?
People SHOULD respect the fact that the new people are wanting to watch the CS's and not be rushed to death.
I personally feel like at the end of the day, people just do not patience in this game and wants to get stuff done as fast
as humanly possible.

I watched a video in Lost city and I still got confused, I now know what to do from actual experience.
Same like making like idk...meatloaf, watched a video, still confused, but after making it a few times I got the
idea of it better.

Watching things =/= Learning yourself first hand.
I was in no way trying to be rude in my previous post btw.

[Macka]

The other 7 people in your party do care.

Stop being selfish.

I'm pretty sure not all 7 care if we wiped. It's always one who cares and rants and want to vote to abandon and when its rejected it just makes my day to watch what they will do next. Will they A. stick around B. Rage quit and I just invite an fc/ls member C. Rant and insults everybody in party to get kicked or D. Turn off their game and still get kicked.

[AiChyan]

And I can understand that. But I think the most important thing to note before diving into a DF is that everyone you meet there may have different goals and ideals. Having an expectation such as, "everyone here should have watched a video" is setting yourself up for disappointment. Maybe newer players didn't know that was an expectation. A lot of people are assuming "Oh you knew what you had to do. You just didn't because you're lazy." You gotta put yourself in other people's shoes. Through PF, you know what the goal is of everyone (assuming you set it up properly).

Thing is with dungeons even the hard modes, they are fairly simple and barely anyone minds explaining mechanics to new comers. But by the time people hit Coil and ex they do know that they are expected to at least know what mechanics the fight includes. If they fail them they will be getting tips and advice, but going in blindly in something like T4 or T5 is just wrong.
Typing out an explanation of the phases of either of those two is gonna take much much more than what it would take to watch a little video or read a guide and its just not fair to go in expecting people to be willing to go through all that.

I'm pretty sure not all 7 care if we wiped. It's always one who cares and rants and want to vote to abandon and when its rejected it just makes my day to watch what they will do next. Will they A. stick around B. Rage quit and I just invite an fc/ls member C. Rant and insults everybody in party to get kicked or D. Turn off their game and still get kicked.

Being silent doesn't mean they are pleased.

[KingOfAbyss]

Duty Finder was made to allow.. let's call them 'veterans' to 'Help' noobs getting their trial/dungeon done.

Problem with that, no one bothered. They had to give candies so people would do it. (nowadays it's the norm., I need to get something in return else.. [insert bad words])

Then came relics upgrade.. animus, or so they call it.. which needs a truck of Myth tomes..

People go in DF for their own selfish need, not caring at all to anything, they want to speed run through it so they get 'their' rewards.

You're a noob, let us drive you with it, just tag along for the free ride, and yes, you'll still be a noob with no clue about what just transpired here. Just don't waste our time.

and hey! don't you dare click need on a piece that my alt needs.. because even if the button pops up, and you paid for the same game than me, you just can't.

I'll report you. Don't you dare reply to me, I'll report you as well. (bullying much)
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The idea was good from SE to help those who cannot communicate and form parties, belong to FC.. (I would assume japanese-based, but it can be anyone who wants to solo an MMO.. or PS4 with no keyboard - my favorite ^^)

But to put Myth tomes and Soldiery.. bad idea...

Take them off? No one will ever wink at DF.. so what could be the plan?

As only a minority of the whole community reads these posts, what can we do to resolve this issue?

Make diff servers? 1- those who help everyone 2 - those who don't

we could see how long #2 would stay alive ^^

[Clavaat]

-snip-

Firstly, don't you need a full PT to enter T4 and T5 through DF? If not then ignore this, but that kind of prevents the issue in the first place. I'm referring to DF solo.

Secondly, I honestly don't think explanations need to be longer. If it's 1 or 2 people, you can hit the main points in a sentence or two, job-specific that is.

Thirdly, my point still stands. Going into DF with expectations is setting yourself up for disaster, because everyone has different goals. Those goals may not involve watching/reading but just practicing. The only expectation I have with a DF group is that you try your best and try to learn from your mistakes. For everything else, there's PF.

[Garlyle]

Watching things =/= Learning yourself first hand.

Honestly, we don't expect you to get things immediately just because you watched a video. But on the hard content, it gives you a frame of reference. An idea. A baseline. We can answer it from there, we can clarify, we can expand on 'why is stacking so important during fireballs' or 'oh, yeah, ranged stand here because they can target both the adjacent sections while tornados are active'.

Trying to teach you from scratch with words is even harder if there's no mental "oh, that's what that weird thing with the rocks was in the video" to link it to.

[Macka]

People expect different things going into Duty Finder. Specifically for harder content, what I often hear is, "Duty Finder's for casual play, Party Finder's where you go when you want to clear". However, I think that especially as you aren't able to make that initial agreement over experience/intent, it should be the opposite - you should go into Duty Finder on hard content with your diligence done, because personally, I think you owe it to the others there. To at least be ready to go at it seriously, and make effort on your own end not to be the one holding everyone back.

When you unlock new content the tells you straight up use duty finder to complete said duty. Yes duty finder not party finder. It don't tell you to go watch a video which I dont or tell you read a strategy guide wbich I do. Watching videos is a waste of time especially Mrhappy guides 30 minutes of him rambling no thqnks.

[KingOfAbyss]

typically people like that will take days off of work to raid 8-10 hours a day to clear content/reach world firsts and have more time on their hands than those who learned from a guide and just want to play a couple hours a night.

If you can't play as much as an Hardcore - don't try, and stay casual. Endgame might be hard-of-reach, but still accessible.

- Still, you should be entitled to get help, noob or not, to improve yourself, if you ask, and then your party, having a good time, enjoying the game - the way you want it, not how others wants you to enjoy it the same way they do.

Cookie Cutters is good, but if I want to enjoy CS and try my best without vids, it's my choice. (I won't DF that, mind you )