Thanks for actually reading it, but you missed the point entirely And your post wasn't offensive at all. It just took what I said, put it in a context more suitable to your reality, and left out anything about friendlies, it being satirical, and meant to offend both sides. I know satire is lost on most, but its strange to see someone go as far to respond to it so seriously, even with a proper warning satire is happening.

Your post is as humorous as my friend's reactions who think Stephen Colbert of the Colbert show actually believes what is coming out of his mouth.

No one said you were salty Zulu, nor was that part meant to slap the anti-Win side. That poke was to put it in perspective that this is a role playing game Some people decide to be the bad guys in worlds where no one gets hurt.

Internet bad guys like attention. Thanks for feeding into their game and egos is my point. This isn't the first time the community has been crushed by win traders . They went away when we stopped caring/complaining.

Either way: "Either way, I don't care about win traders."
Your response to my opinion on win traders, seemed to be to explain to me how and why win trading ruins PvP? This is a win trading thread, on the PvP forums. Good chance I understand how win trading ruins PvP. r30 PvPer myself, with 2k+ matches under my belt. Leader of two PvP shells, in the process of training and learning from 150 members. I PvP all day So do most who end up here. No need to go over basics. I know what Win trading does to PvP, I still don't care how other players approach their hobby. Not my business.

My choice to do PvP legit has nothing to do with them. And they aren't bound to hold themselves to my standard. The only people required to do that are myself, and my linkshell members.

Even after losing to win traders 100+ times, I'm not going to rage about it O.o been through it too many times, in tooany games. I'll catch up to them and make them remember me later O.o, if they haven't stopped playing by then.

I'm an adult, I'm not going to try to make another player lose hundreds of hours of their time over a short match.

"Many win traders have lives"
Not excuses, just a few reasons.
Other reasons: To piss you off, they just wanted it so badly they couldn't control themselves, they had nothing else to do and wanted to help a friend, they were paid per hour by group A.

Nothing I said, in either post, excuses win trading. It still ruins balance. Again, they aren't excuses, theybarw the facts.

Fact: Every single player PvPing has a different reason for being there

So they are going to be approaching PvP, in a manner you may not. A good 20 other posts going over that subject already though.

You having time to go to work, come home, and still! STILL! STILL!!! have time to cap things, PvP, and live your fantasy.

Again, has nothing to do with other peoples fantasies or their reality. I have the same outlook on gil buyers, I don't buy gil. I make plenty of gil. But some players don't have the time to employ my methods. Maybe they don't have time to farm at all o.o its a game, and their hobby, they spent money to buy, pay monthly to enhance their experience, really what do I care if he buys gil, to further enhance what little time they play o.o.

Same as carry buyers. Carries aren't for me. But carry on. Again, no other player needs to abidey standard, nor yours.

"I've seen a bunch of jealous posts."
I have, there are a ton of them
Not sure if I saw a salty post from you. Usually silly ones.
Your relaxed. Awesome.

SE is gonna nerf 4 v 4? Cool, let your GM also know they better give us the tools to continue to allow us to 4 v 4 also when they do that. For either 0 to the same amount of EXP we currently get.

I have 150 members to play with, their terribleatch making system robs the true potential of organized PvP communities. We demand more, its very hard to encourage people to party up and learn with and about their servermates when the current exp model encourages solo ques.

This makes it much harder for most servers to get front lines ready.

But SE can take their time making a better PvP experience, we've already made our own way to get frontlines ready, to play with and learn from our server, people who we can surely see again and team up with again. Even say Hi to in between matches. We gain exp, have fun, and fight hard.

We call that better PvP experience "Friendlies". We didn't wait for SE to fix the problem. We made our own solution, and they should be paying attention to our solution, because its :
Getting new blood into PvP daily.
Taking away most of the major complaints people have about PvP.
Producing better fights.
Encourages group play in a team based mode.

Now back to responding to responses!

Oh rank roll back you say? Temp Suspensions and Etc(meant to make us think perma bans? Or you got bored?)
A GM you say.
And he said stuff, about being clueless and powerless. And that something might come of it. Grade A customer service rep there. He made you feel better about the situation and got to go back to his job without fixing any problems. Kudos to him and his paycheck. I can see why your not "jelly" now.

"Because in the end"
Yeah, if my words are held in the light you chose them to be. Without any thoughts coming before or after them. Without the spirit of the whole message here(Grow up and do something productive, banning win traders will not fix terrible PvP design/matchmaking, as a customer demand more of SE, not the banning of players you are angry at.) Well then of course I am wrong.

But were good, all your responses were to thing you framed out of context .

Either way, 90% of the players, don't care. You and a few friends help make up the other 10%. Welcome to our side, we are a bit slower than win traders. But aren't we cool? We did it legit. Now that you and I are clearly on the same side of the issue, let me ask....banning players is the answer here? I'm sorry but I'm trying to build the PvP community up, not tear it down So I guess I'll find my own answer.....with more like minded people...

Also, why tell someone to not speak for the community, while you are speaking on behalf of the community. My imaginary figures of 90%/10%. Of people who care and don't.

Of my statement and yours, both are false. But yours leaves no wiggle room, paints a terrible picture, and reeks of....well it not nice to say.

You closed it with all people who support win traders must be win traders? While a long winded and tounge in cheek post from me may have set you off a bit. I'd advise against those sort of comments. You may be new to this, but a GM giving you information and a witch hunt one post? Bad look man.

"My satire on solo quers being considered boosters"
I wrote before hand it was satire.
Out of context, and weirdly forgot to put my disclaimer in it.
Again, there is never an excuse, justification, etc for win trading or bottling. That is just the state of things.
It was supposed to take the cake satire.
Solo que is the main attraction of team based PvP? O.o? What is this...

Casuals, duty finder, elites. Best of the best..ok..so unskilled players and casual are supposed to solo que? And elites are supposed to section themselves off in groups? Your talking about tools players can use to enhance their experience in any form they choose. But....that's not how it works O.o

All that sentence showed was what you think the tools in front are for. Other players may or may not use them the same way you do. They have more function than that.

Example using your rules: Party finder is for elites trying to group up.

I use party finder for PvP. It allows me to recruit a group of 8 players. Even when I choose the PvP option. I put in the Comment:
"Team Siren's daily Event. Friendlies. 4 v 4 Siren only PvP.
New to PvP, come learn. Not new to PvP, instaque matches. PvE and naked rules."

That duty finder, usually recruits 7 people brand new to PvP. The furthest thing from elites, then they fight each other, get told its a no pressure situation, get compliments and tips on how to do better in PvP, instead of insulted and bullied out of PvP. They join our link shell, keep PvPing, and then enter solo ques once they know what is up.

Other small side bonuses:
Those people end up talking, they end up having fun, they end up being your bud. They end up not canceling their subscription, because they still have more matches to fight with friends.

That is just one example, of how someone can take the same tools as you, and create a much different experience.

I use SE's Party finder, with the PvP option they gave us, to recruit more people for PvP, offer them fun, exp, and ablinkshell. Doesn't fall quite into your views of party finder being there for elite players in T9. And duty finder being for casuals.

Also, you admitted to being the ultimate PvP casual, as the main attraction of PvP for you being solos ques. That's a joke.

Your post is filled with link shell drama, anger, paranoia, GM's, and a hint of jealousy that win traders on gilga got stuff.

My post deals with being indifferent because I legitly disagree with this one of the few topics on this board with 7+ pages, and that paying customers are focusing on cheaters instead of demanding more constructive things.

I also let players know they can fight legit matches and provide a better PvP community with friendlies.

Again though, solo ques are not, and never should be the focus of team combat. It makes for boring matches, and does not promote making and breaking valid meta-game.

You end it by saying I don't like solo ques and need to make excuses for 4 v 4 (any form).

It was satire.

I solo que all day and night O.o
Your talking about friendlies being cheating now? The main point of friendlies is to get everyone ready for what happens 1 month from now. FRONTLINES.

We started friendlies to get everyone playing with each other again and to stop solo quing. So that everyone is used to one another's play styles.

Regardless of which team you end up on, you learn about your future teammates. You learn a ton about them when trying to figure out how to beat the other team with them, and you learn even more about your teammates when your on the receiving side of their skills.

You learn flows, various counter tactics etc.

My link shell, is front lines ready lol.

Is solo ques doing that for you?

We don't need an excuse to run friendlies, we aren't cheating lol. And they've had a positive impact, all while providing a better PvP experience compared to pug matches.

All we have compared to you, is a different focus, team play, better fights, and a heavy focus on front lines. Excuse us for not asking you or SE if we are allowed to gather and practice for a PvP mode that isn't out yet.

Regardless, we do not bot, we do not win trade, we love to fight and add to the PvP community any chance we get We use the rules they gave us, and the tools they gave us, to craft our own PvP experience.

"Closing statement response"
Lol what more can I say. This is already way longer than it should be.

You highlighty words again, talk about cheaters, bunch of words, none of them being constructive, none of it offering anything new. Just more mindless self indulgence lol.

Do me a favor though, ask your GM what they think about friendlies. If its the answer they are looking for? Or a bannableboffense.

And if they are super pissed their customers are enjoying PvP and fighting each other legit. When can we expect 150 bans to 100 rank 1-10's, 45 rank 11-30's and 3 rank 30+'s. Cause I just know your GM is looking into the players you reported, and my link shell.

Final Question, did you report your win trading link shell mates?

Your two possible answers:
No: your reported other win traders but not your own?

Yes: You just admitted to trying to get people on your server banned. Good luck. Nice job smearing pwnology also.