Is "PvP" farming allowed?

[wicked-one]

I would guess, no FF-XIV related problem, wherever there is a possibility, there is someone who uses it.

as Al Bundy once said - "It's only cheating if you get caught"

since PvP is no deal for me, it bothers me not really.

[Potatoes]

I would guess, no FF-XIV related problem, wherever there is a possibility, there is someone who uses it.

as Al Bundy once said - "It's only cheating if you get caught"

since PvP is no deal for me, it bothers me not really.

Thanks for logging in and replying to this thread to tell us that you don't care about pvp and it doesn't bother you that people play it in a controversial manner. Your statement has been noted and logged for posterity for further game tweaks and community input in the future. Thank you for playing FFXIV and live the fantasy!

[zulu_kulu]

snip.

well i dont want to risk another ban, but i got to say there is alot of wrong in this post.

so just gonna touch on only a few points that annoy me, very nice and politely and non aggressively at i possible can.



Honestly, I don't care about win traders. This is their hobby, let them do what they want. They pay monthly to engage in their hobby, who are we to tell them no, you gotta spend 500 hours of your life in PvP for our respect. And why should they care about the respect of other players, it really does't hurt nor improve their activities.

sigh...(very nicely) the reason why win trading sucks because it gives an unfair advantage to players who boost their gear. let be honest here, that is all this about. r40 boosters running around in the solo queues facerolling an entire team by themselves based on gear, not skill. i seen a very crappy r40 pld blew up a r30 healer by himself. it was hilarious though to everyone to go "WTH?" within the first 10 second of the match. these players dont have to go thru 5000 hours like the rest of us, they could just set up an LS and 4v4 each other legitimately and get to r40 faster than anyone in solo ever could;however, they SHOULD NOT win trade to the top because when they decide to leave their little cozy comfort zone and queue up with legit players who are experience with the unpredictability of pugging, these players are always ALWAYS the firs tot go " lol pvp nobb" "git gud" "you guys suck get moar gearz" and other silly things.the worst ones are those who have NO pvp awareness what so ever. for example, i seen a monk r40 player out dps by our opponent drg and that drg wasnt that hot either. i seen r40 healers who cant handle the pressure of having alot of doods on him or her while keep their team up. i seen r40 pld who doesnt used his CD or even tries to protect the healers. i seen r40 blm who didnt know what nightwing was and think he can take the healer on solo, only to get smash by EVERYONE and then scream "WTF heals? you guys suck" and the list goes on. those 5000 battle you so rudely snear at called battle experiences. gear apparently can only carried you so much before you become a liability.


Many win traders have lives, jobs, kids, other hobbies. Not really your place to cast judgement on how they manage their down time and hobby.

(very calmly and very non threatening) this is no excuse what so ever. i work 40+ hours per week on the overnight and got other thing i do in the morning and i still have time to pvp/ it is comical you seem to think that your real life priorities should give these win traders a pass on this exploitation because it its their downtime. well guess what? its my downtime too, as well as alot of players who pvp legitimately. while i would be dead tired when i get home, i still found time to recruit, pvp, do my tome dallies and etc.


I've seen a bunch of jealous posts that do nothing but give power to the win traders. They want your ire, they want you to be mad, jealous, and salty over their sped up efforts to gain access to more PvP power. if you think im salty over you guys exploiting the Win Trading system, think again. in fact, im relatively relaxed because lets be real here, the way SE handle stuff in pvp, a few is likely to happen: 4v4 will get stupid nerf to the ground. pvp rank will be rollback. offender could get suspended and etc. when i ask the GM in game about this, he or she said they cant say anything definitely , but this seems like an exploit, so i should not partake in these activities. it seems to me, the GM think such behavior is wrong , but officially cant act upon it yet. so no, im not jelly or anything close to that.

Because in the end, we are the only ones who care. 90% of the ARR players see win traders and say that's cool., you beat turn 9 yet? And then proceed to tell the r30+'s that this is not a PvP game.

this is utter false, in my LS, a few player left the suicide sheep due to their constant win trading. in fact, alot of players responding to my PF is coil players but want to pvp without pugging. also, it seems to me those who are ok with win trading are win traders. please do not speak for other people.


You know who I hate just as much as Win Traders? People who solo que.

They are ruining PvP. They only bring one person to PvP at a time, and they get more exp than people to prefer to group up. Even worse two friends will solo que at the same time to maximize exp. Boosting their way to r40 via avoiding grouping up.

out of all the excuses, justification and other silly hyperbole i seen, this one takes the cake.you do realized that solo queue is the MAIN ATTRACTION for pvp. premades is made for the most competitive of players, just like how all DF content is made for casual or the less skilled players and coil 6-9 is made for for the elite hardcore players . one is made so players can pick up and play the other is for the best teams to square off. you entire reasoning for disliking solo is absurd at best or a nonsensical excuse you have to justify 4v4 (in any form) at worst.


Well not really, just get us front lines already SE . Don't mind the PvP community blaming you for a terrible PvP community, when they are the ones being abrasive in PvP. We all helped ruin PvP for the casuals in our own way.

well true both parties is at fault here, SE not saying about this exploitation which has blown up exponentially and also further the gear gap from new players and already season veterans. the players who are exploiting this issue to no end just to boost up faster because " i have a life outside therefore cheating is ok" nonsense;however, i will blamed SE more if they continue to take inaction on this issue.


now if i offended you in some way ,well i am sorry.

[Kantei]

Thanks for actually reading it, but you missed the point entirely And your post wasn't offensive at all. It just took what I said, put it in a context more suitable to your reality, and left out anything about friendlies, it being satirical, and meant to offend both sides. I know satire is lost on most, but its strange to see someone go as far to respond to it so seriously, even with a proper warning satire is happening.

Your post is as humorous as my friend's reactions who think Stephen Colbert of the Colbert show actually believes what is coming out of his mouth.

No one said you were salty Zulu, nor was that part meant to slap the anti-Win side. That poke was to put it in perspective that this is a role playing game Some people decide to be the bad guys in worlds where no one gets hurt.

Internet bad guys like attention. Thanks for feeding into their game and egos is my point. This isn't the first time the community has been crushed by win traders . They went away when we stopped caring/complaining.

Either way: "Either way, I don't care about win traders."
Your response to my opinion on win traders, seemed to be to explain to me how and why win trading ruins PvP? This is a win trading thread, on the PvP forums. Good chance I understand how win trading ruins PvP. r30 PvPer myself, with 2k+ matches under my belt. Leader of two PvP shells, in the process of training and learning from 150 members. I PvP all day So do most who end up here. No need to go over basics. I know what Win trading does to PvP, I still don't care how other players approach their hobby. Not my business.

My choice to do PvP legit has nothing to do with them. And they aren't bound to hold themselves to my standard. The only people required to do that are myself, and my linkshell members.

Even after losing to win traders 100+ times, I'm not going to rage about it O.o been through it too many times, in tooany games. I'll catch up to them and make them remember me later O.o, if they haven't stopped playing by then.

I'm an adult, I'm not going to try to make another player lose hundreds of hours of their time over a short match.

"Many win traders have lives"
Not excuses, just a few reasons.
Other reasons: To piss you off, they just wanted it so badly they couldn't control themselves, they had nothing else to do and wanted to help a friend, they were paid per hour by group A.

Nothing I said, in either post, excuses win trading. It still ruins balance. Again, they aren't excuses, theybarw the facts.

Fact: Every single player PvPing has a different reason for being there

So they are going to be approaching PvP, in a manner you may not. A good 20 other posts going over that subject already though.

You having time to go to work, come home, and still! STILL! STILL!!! have time to cap things, PvP, and live your fantasy.

Again, has nothing to do with other peoples fantasies or their reality. I have the same outlook on gil buyers, I don't buy gil. I make plenty of gil. But some players don't have the time to employ my methods. Maybe they don't have time to farm at all o.o its a game, and their hobby, they spent money to buy, pay monthly to enhance their experience, really what do I care if he buys gil, to further enhance what little time they play o.o.

Same as carry buyers. Carries aren't for me. But carry on. Again, no other player needs to abidey standard, nor yours.

"I've seen a bunch of jealous posts."
I have, there are a ton of them
Not sure if I saw a salty post from you. Usually silly ones.
Your relaxed. Awesome.

SE is gonna nerf 4 v 4? Cool, let your GM also know they better give us the tools to continue to allow us to 4 v 4 also when they do that. For either 0 to the same amount of EXP we currently get.

I have 150 members to play with, their terribleatch making system robs the true potential of organized PvP communities. We demand more, its very hard to encourage people to party up and learn with and about their servermates when the current exp model encourages solo ques.

This makes it much harder for most servers to get front lines ready.

But SE can take their time making a better PvP experience, we've already made our own way to get frontlines ready, to play with and learn from our server, people who we can surely see again and team up with again. Even say Hi to in between matches. We gain exp, have fun, and fight hard.

We call that better PvP experience "Friendlies". We didn't wait for SE to fix the problem. We made our own solution, and they should be paying attention to our solution, because its :
Getting new blood into PvP daily.
Taking away most of the major complaints people have about PvP.
Producing better fights.
Encourages group play in a team based mode.

Now back to responding to responses!

Oh rank roll back you say? Temp Suspensions and Etc(meant to make us think perma bans? Or you got bored?)
A GM you say.
And he said stuff, about being clueless and powerless. And that something might come of it. Grade A customer service rep there. He made you feel better about the situation and got to go back to his job without fixing any problems. Kudos to him and his paycheck. I can see why your not "jelly" now.

"Because in the end"
Yeah, if my words are held in the light you chose them to be. Without any thoughts coming before or after them. Without the spirit of the whole message here(Grow up and do something productive, banning win traders will not fix terrible PvP design/matchmaking, as a customer demand more of SE, not the banning of players you are angry at.) Well then of course I am wrong.

But were good, all your responses were to thing you framed out of context .

Either way, 90% of the players, don't care. You and a few friends help make up the other 10%. Welcome to our side, we are a bit slower than win traders. But aren't we cool? We did it legit. Now that you and I are clearly on the same side of the issue, let me ask....banning players is the answer here? I'm sorry but I'm trying to build the PvP community up, not tear it down So I guess I'll find my own answer.....with more like minded people...

Also, why tell someone to not speak for the community, while you are speaking on behalf of the community. My imaginary figures of 90%/10%. Of people who care and don't.

Of my statement and yours, both are false. But yours leaves no wiggle room, paints a terrible picture, and reeks of....well it not nice to say.

You closed it with all people who support win traders must be win traders? While a long winded and tounge in cheek post from me may have set you off a bit. I'd advise against those sort of comments. You may be new to this, but a GM giving you information and a witch hunt one post? Bad look man.

"My satire on solo quers being considered boosters"
I wrote before hand it was satire.
Out of context, and weirdly forgot to put my disclaimer in it.
Again, there is never an excuse, justification, etc for win trading or bottling. That is just the state of things.
It was supposed to take the cake satire.
Solo que is the main attraction of team based PvP? O.o? What is this...

Casuals, duty finder, elites. Best of the best..ok..so unskilled players and casual are supposed to solo que? And elites are supposed to section themselves off in groups? Your talking about tools players can use to enhance their experience in any form they choose. But....that's not how it works O.o

All that sentence showed was what you think the tools in front are for. Other players may or may not use them the same way you do. They have more function than that.

Example using your rules: Party finder is for elites trying to group up.

I use party finder for PvP. It allows me to recruit a group of 8 players. Even when I choose the PvP option. I put in the Comment:
"Team Siren's daily Event. Friendlies. 4 v 4 Siren only PvP.
New to PvP, come learn. Not new to PvP, instaque matches. PvE and naked rules."

That duty finder, usually recruits 7 people brand new to PvP. The furthest thing from elites, then they fight each other, get told its a no pressure situation, get compliments and tips on how to do better in PvP, instead of insulted and bullied out of PvP. They join our link shell, keep PvPing, and then enter solo ques once they know what is up.

Other small side bonuses:
Those people end up talking, they end up having fun, they end up being your bud. They end up not canceling their subscription, because they still have more matches to fight with friends.

That is just one example, of how someone can take the same tools as you, and create a much different experience.

I use SE's Party finder, with the PvP option they gave us, to recruit more people for PvP, offer them fun, exp, and ablinkshell. Doesn't fall quite into your views of party finder being there for elite players in T9. And duty finder being for casuals.

Also, you admitted to being the ultimate PvP casual, as the main attraction of PvP for you being solos ques. That's a joke.

Your post is filled with link shell drama, anger, paranoia, GM's, and a hint of jealousy that win traders on gilga got stuff.

My post deals with being indifferent because I legitly disagree with this one of the few topics on this board with 7+ pages, and that paying customers are focusing on cheaters instead of demanding more constructive things.

I also let players know they can fight legit matches and provide a better PvP community with friendlies.

Again though, solo ques are not, and never should be the focus of team combat. It makes for boring matches, and does not promote making and breaking valid meta-game.

You end it by saying I don't like solo ques and need to make excuses for 4 v 4 (any form).

It was satire.

I solo que all day and night O.o
Your talking about friendlies being cheating now? The main point of friendlies is to get everyone ready for what happens 1 month from now. FRONTLINES.

We started friendlies to get everyone playing with each other again and to stop solo quing. So that everyone is used to one another's play styles.

Regardless of which team you end up on, you learn about your future teammates. You learn a ton about them when trying to figure out how to beat the other team with them, and you learn even more about your teammates when your on the receiving side of their skills.

You learn flows, various counter tactics etc.

My link shell, is front lines ready lol.

Is solo ques doing that for you?

We don't need an excuse to run friendlies, we aren't cheating lol. And they've had a positive impact, all while providing a better PvP experience compared to pug matches.

All we have compared to you, is a different focus, team play, better fights, and a heavy focus on front lines. Excuse us for not asking you or SE if we are allowed to gather and practice for a PvP mode that isn't out yet.

Regardless, we do not bot, we do not win trade, we love to fight and add to the PvP community any chance we get We use the rules they gave us, and the tools they gave us, to craft our own PvP experience.

"Closing statement response"
Lol what more can I say. This is already way longer than it should be.

You highlighty words again, talk about cheaters, bunch of words, none of them being constructive, none of it offering anything new. Just more mindless self indulgence lol.

Do me a favor though, ask your GM what they think about friendlies. If its the answer they are looking for? Or a bannableboffense.

And if they are super pissed their customers are enjoying PvP and fighting each other legit. When can we expect 150 bans to 100 rank 1-10's, 45 rank 11-30's and 3 rank 30+'s. Cause I just know your GM is looking into the players you reported, and my link shell.

Final Question, did you report your win trading link shell mates?

Your two possible answers:
No: your reported other win traders but not your own?

Yes: You just admitted to trying to get people on your server banned. Good luck. Nice job smearing pwnology also.

[zulu_kulu]

snip

too much stuff to completely go into right away , but let hit on a few thing first.
1.thank you for saying my post wasnt offensive at all. i was recent ban due "too agreessive". if i am being too agressive or such please let me know.
2. while i did clip quotes from you post, i did tried to keep them in relative context, if i did not... my bad
3.i will admitted that satire is lost on me (well over the internet it is anyways) and all point you label as "satire", i will concede and make little comment over it.
4. indeed, i took the "salty" part rather personally and again i concede and say my bad.
5. perhaps win trading in pvp communties isnt something, but it is to me. so bear my internert newborn wails on this problem.

ok onto the actually thread (and i will try to keep it relative as possible)

A. "Either way, I don't care about win traders." section.

a1. yeah i did seem to reliarate what has been said in this thread, but that only because of the "win trading doesnt effect anyone" line you previously said which is not true, but im not gonna restate why though. it already been said and it a "either you get it or you dont or you just dont care. and you dont.ok...
a2.while these players doesnt have to go by my or your standards, they do have to go by the ToS in this game and really that all this is about. a lot of players who feel these win traders violate the rules and should get their due.
a3.when i lose to win traders, im too is not discouraged. i survive the wave of double SMN and SCH insta rez comp, the bunny hoping, 3 man premades and etc. i will survive this, but that because i really enjoy pvp, what about new players who just trying out pvp and get faceroll by high ranking players or players using exploits to get ahead fast? you must have not seen pvp in 2.15 +. there is a good reason why the pvp community , which was fairly sized, severly shrank to what it is now and it was not just simply the fact pvp has one map.

B."Many win traders have lives" section.

b1.you say dont excuse W.T, only just give reasonings, but your reasoning are excuses. btw i doubt players like wahpaw or other win traders truly care how i feel or want to go the extra mile to troll me.in fact, the player was like that guy who spout pvp lose and wins and even he stopped.
b2. indeed , every pvp players plays for different reasons, but there is only to legit way to play : solo or 4v4.not botting solo of exp, or stripping naked and let the opposing kill to your team and then you the same to them in the next match. there is a right way and a wrong way to do stuff.also in your post you are advocating RMT, which is the reason why the market place is destroy. gil buying REALLY hurts the market as it inflates the prices to an ridicolous amount. i wont go further into that, but you are so wrong on this on " it doesnt affect anyone".
b3. carries does the exact same thing! those players didnt meet the skill cap and is totally unprepared for the much hard content. they are a liable to everyone. this si the reason why alot people originally dislike the the first ARR relic quest, as alot of player just brought a carry to thru and ended up sucking in other parts.again, carries harms the community just as gil buying.

C."I've seen a bunch of jealous posts." section.

c1.eh there are some rage post , but i doubt they are jealous, but i cant read minds or feelings, so conceding.

c2.yes SE is gonna nerf 4v4, anyone who have been here in since 2.15 knows how Se handle stuff. originally, normal solo quesue gave 50 marks and 30 exp regardless if you were premade or not. everyone exploited the hell out of this and now the queues firmly support players soloing than teaming up.you know our "one melee and one range dps" thing, yeah back in 2.1,we had could pick double melee or range, but SE nerf because of all the double SMN and sch, which made this team invincible.good luck trying to kill a team will insta rezzing on stand by.to combat this problem enforce a the comp we have today.then the only exploit that went unpunished by was the bunny hopping and that was just because bunny hoping wasnt something that can be nerfed. of course i could be wrong, however, i dont think so.the nerf is gonna be something akin to the solo queues, it probably gonna get reduced down to what a 3 man gets in solo , but then again with frontlines coming out, i highly doubt anyone will care.
c2.2 true the current wolf marks are absolutely crap, but that is by design and all this exploiting does just have SE punish everyone due to what a few players are doing.

c3. i have nothing to say about your friendlies as that what im doing as well.
c4. rollbacks and temp suspension will occur if SE found this to be an exploit, this just did to coil players and players who bots. why wouldnt they do this to pvp?

c5\. i wouldnt say "powerless" more less dont anything thay could be a exploit.which is good advice,why scarifice all my hard earn effort for something that isnt working as intended (win trading, not regular 4 v 4).also i would be jelly even if the GM said "yeah it is totally legal", as im playing and winning matches without needed to be carried by gear.i didnt need a GM to quell me, but nice try though.

D."Because in the end" section

d1. i am well mature and doing alot of productive thing in my life and also ingame, but thanks for the advice though.also banning or even just punishing winning wont fix the matching system, but i will serve as a deterrent from cheating and in the end that all alot of players ask for.
d2. again , you are making the assumption that that it 90% and i am saying it not. neither of us have the metric to say otherwise.
d3. while i dont want anybody to get banned, but if you are clearly cheating, then yes you should get banned. win trading doesnt help, build or refined the community , it only destroys, weaken and divides or corrupts players in order to compete.there is nothing good about this.
d4. where did i say or imply i spoke of the community? oh wait i didnt, i just retold my experiences when i advertised my linkshell.
d5. indeed, we are both incorrect and neither of us have the playerbase feelings based on win trading, so conceded.
d6. well yes, alot of players who defend win trade or agrue whether players should even get mad over are majority win traders. sure there you are you LS, but in every thread, the players that support win trade are win traders justifing their actions because "pvp is boring" " i just want gear for glamour" "pvp is broken is it is ok to cheat" and etc. lets not pretend this isnt true. just look at all the pro side players and notice most of admitted win trading.
d7. your " long winded and tounge in cheek post " advocates win trading though, it just not directly.

E."My satire on solo quers being considered boosters" section.

i said i would skip this part as i didnt read this part of your post as satire, but a few things though

e1. everyone know duty finder is primarily used by causals and (excuse me here) the unskilled players, while PF is the used by primarily the hardcores players when it comes to gaming. let not play dumb here, how many causals or unskilled players goes "2 wipes = kick" or "have exp or kick" or etc?sure there are learning parties, but the unskilled players wont be in those players too long, before removed to the fact they cant learn the mechanic or just quit outright themseleves. just because you, i, the lady down the street , kirby and will smith used the PF benevolently doesnt mean it isnt primarily used by the hardcores who expect perfection.

e1.2 tools? where did i say or imply people being tools for me?please post it and i recant.
e2. solo queues is the main attraction to pvp in this game! you do realized that most players who pvp, hasnt queue up for premades 4v4?you know why? because alot of them doesnt have statics or groups to 4v4 and even if they did, there is no reason to do so. again, pre 2.2, the biggest complain in pvp, that 4v4 was dead, in same ways it still dead unless players on this forum announced ahead of time that they were queueing up, but that the minority though.
e3. Your post is filled with link shell drama:what link shell drama? CTA have no beef with SS, in fact, i have been senting yivi players who are interested in their activites.
3.1 anger: O__o no anger here, annoyance at SE lack of response maybe, but full rage like anger? lol hardly
3.2paranoia: what paranoia? the nerfs? that isnt paranoia, that foresight based off of SE behavior.
3.4GM's: well it isnt full of GM's or such, i just retold what has been saiid to me. that hardly "full" of something
3.5 a hint of jealousy that win traders on gilga got stuff: again, im not jealous, why would i be? because they are cheating?well that them and im me. i dont get jealous or envious over cheaters, but nice assumption though.

e4. so what? SE should never go after cheaters? players should never called out potentially harmful actions that other players do? just because you pay for a sub, doesnt give you , i or anyone the right to cheat. to say otherwise is silly.

e5. solo make for boring matches? really? because in all my pvp experience across f2ps, swtor, lol and FPs, pugs figts are the most unpredictable fights in the game.different players with different gear with different expeince all coming together to fight. r40 players doing crap dps compare to the other team r20.pugs are anything, but "boring". premades, on the other hand, almost always play out the same. teamX Y Z and A B C will deploy their well known tactics and it is just a matter of out manvuering them just enough.also for your " promote making and breaking valid meta-game", this is flat out wrong. it was in pugs , did the Mrd concept came in to exstience. it was me and a few guys realizing the flaw in pvp taht tanks arent tanks, but just psuedo dps. so we took out our soulstone and destroy the "war onry" meta. we did it again with archer with more crosskills and turning thm into the ultimate CC/second heals machine, with less success though.

e6.being in "friendlies" isnt cheating, but win trading is. i already said this.where did i say 4v4 = cheating?oh wait i didnt.

F. "Is solo ques doing that for you?" section

f1.of course! pugs are ultimately unpredictable and build exp and refine your pvp skills.the problem with premades is that, it static.you know which player to take out first, you who deadly and who weak. you know how to go at them and how to avoid their traps;however, this is ok though as you give your team a chance to tighten and refine your technique, so next time you are harder to kill. pugs isnt like this at all. sure in solo, you get a dumb team a lot , but there are times where things like the pvp kill order is useless and you gotta improvise fast to win. some of the most skilled players in FFxiV pvp are soloers.

f2. again i have no problem with 4v4 players when they are doing it legit, if i did i would have responded to your thread and call you out on it.which i didnt.

G."Closing statement response" section.

G1.my post wasnt me self indulging, but explaining the sentiments why players are opposed to win trade. i find nothing amusing or gratifying having explain the obvious to you. because let be honest here, all you and i did here waste a couple of hours responding to stuff that we wont agree on;however,your post im quoting in thisthread is self indulgence,did you really needed to make a wall of text to say " its none of your business what i or others do and worry about yourself.

G2. why would i ask a GM about your friendlies? you guys are arranging 4 v4 and actually fighting each other in the manner 4v4 was made for. that is legal.the issue here the ONLY issue is win trading and just win trading. again, here you are indulging yourself.btw while i ask the GM a question, i never reported anyone or LS that partake in win trade.all i ask the GM for an answer to a issue that the forum mods cant seem to answer yet.

H.Final Question, did you report your win trading link shell mates? section.

h1. lol nice try with that fallacy there though, but all the guys that came from SS didnt partake in Win Trade. in fact, that the reason why they join CTA and left SS. however, even if they did though, no i wouldnt report them like i didnt report SS members because ultimately SE havent said if win trade is legal or not.also if i did try to get cheaters banned , i would not feel ashamed about that at all. in fact, i would celebrate it like i did when Rathercast holy'tho got banned and the other rampage bots in pvp back in 2.1. reporting cheaters help keeping the pvp tight and fair. doing nothing only lead to ruination.you seem to think reporting illegal behavior that other people do is somehow a bad thing, amazing! with that and your stance on gil buying and etc, it clear you just dont care that these exploiters is once again ruining pvp or exploiter ruining the game in general.saying and doing nothing only harms everyone,just like back in 2.15. back then i didnt say anything about all those exploiting players who destroy pvp and i saw what price the community paid because of those player and they how they left it as the way it is now. do note when they got their fill, they left and didnt returned.they didnt build the community, but reduced it to this crap. the match making system is their faults and so it the other numerous limitation in pvp we have to contend with today.

final remarks section

and i'm gonna stop here.to me, there was no point for either of us making these walls of texts.especially when we could have simply wrote a paragraph to sum up our views. its clear we wont agree either (your "reasonings" that gil buying and carries doesnt affect the community is all i need to know). lets just break it off here and go back to our respective simplify: any form of cheating, in any part of the game,is wrong and all offenders should be punish. it doesnt matter you just a sub or not, there are rules here that say you cant perform illegal activities.you may want to twist that in any way you want, but the rules are the rules. if SE comes out and say "eh it not harming anyone, so we allow it" , i will say one thing about the issue and then drop it.

[maxm92]

omg... i realy enderstand now why there is a limitation of charracter for each reply....

[Kantei]

Yep, classic wall of text Lol.

[Ragecake]

The butthurt is amazing in this thread.

[Yumi_umi]

Too know true pain is to roll a blm, smn, or healer and get blown up by an i100 dps in mere seconds.
If you haven't had that happen to you then you obviously don't know anything about playing against i100 pvpers.

[KingAhmoseTheFirst]

Too know true pain is to roll a blm, smn, or healer and get blown up by an i100 dps in mere seconds.
If you haven't had that happen to you then you obviously don't know anything about playing against i100 pvpers.

lol.. the pain