Nerfs are making the game less fun for "many" hardcore AND casual players

[darkstarpoet1]

i'm not opposed to nerfs at all, but i do have an issue with the speed the content is nerfed. say this last patch instead of giving bonuses every 2 weeks they had just given a 10% buff to the party if they wiped for so many minutes. let those groups that were right on the verge get their clear when the content is still difficult to them. the next patch make it 20% and it lets the players one level below them clear. each patch as new content is released sure lower the previous content in tiers. basically slow down the speed in which nerfs are put in and it will let everyone of different skill levels beat the content when it challenges them.

[Foo01]

So basically you're telling me that I'm an elitist because I think that I-level 110 gear does not belong in level 50 hard mode / expert dungeons, chimera, hydra, crystal tower, HM primals battles? ....

The elitist want content difficulty to never change so only they can access the new content and riff-raff unclean masses can be stuck. That is being elitist. Content being nerfed so more people can accesss them is not being elitist. Allowing players to farm and gear up iLevel 110 is also an indirect way to nerf the content. If you are against those ideas, then you are siding with the elitists.

If you don't want to use your iLevel 110 gear in HM primals, more power to you. I'm sure you got iLevel 90 or 75 gear around. So go do that, but do NOT impose your play style on the rest of the playerbase. They should have the freedom to do what they want. Only elitist will try to dictate and constrain how and what they play. SE wants to be more inclusive, a elitist wants to be exclusive.

[Emtron]

When the 5% become the majority of the player base then maybe we can talk about making everything for that small % percent that farm turn 6 thru 9 and then log out for the week. But until they become the majority its likely to stay the same. You would be amazed at how many people play this game for various reason, either because a spouse wanted them too or friends that like FF etc.. that have no clue what goes on in this forum or what alot of the issues that we complain about are. Thats you majority and if they hit a wall to many times they will move on and the small HardCore minority is not whats gonna keep this train rolling.

[Orophin]

I agree that there are many bosses that are too difficulty that players won't ever complete them. Those I can see the justification for a nerf down the line. But simply dying to a boss and getting the echo should not indicate that the nerf belongs. Many players want to figure out how to beat the boss without assistance.

SE is thinking long term here. Imagine a year from now when there's a ton of content to do and new people (yes, a game doesn't just stop getting new people after a year) are held back from completing their first relic weapon because they can't find enough people or skilled enough people to take down Titan HM. You think those people are going to stick around?

I'm not saying SE needs to give handouts to everyone, but a little bit of assistance on content that isn't meaningful to the scope of the game at that current time isn't a bad thing. SE want players to actually experience their game, not be hung up on one boss for three months. If that's the ONLY content to do at that point in time, then sure, let them work for it, but when we're several months removed from that content and there's bigger and better things to do, there's nothing wrong with relaxing the requirements a bit.

[Salaphiel]

I actually agree with the OP and I guess I am a casual player.
2 days ago I started coil, which should be the most difficult content and I found out that people are farming it non-stop, because it's so easy.
I'm really disappointed, because it's just another boring speedrun instance and there is absolutely no sense of accomplishment doing it.

I don't even see a reason why casuals like me should have best or near best gear ingame if they can't put it to use.
In addition Ilvl100 is available to everyone without even stepping foot inside coil.

I always loved being part of an organized raid and learning the bosses moves while hanging out in Teamspeak and ultimately that made gaming fun.
But people will always seek the path of least resistance and thus have no reason to socialize, group and have that raid fun, which is rather a pity.

But well Square wants to milk those casuals so I guess it will continue.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

I apologize if I misunderstand what you're saying - but are you saying that if you die enough to see the echo that the content should be nerfed because it's too difficult? I completely disagree. A boss should kill your party on your first try. If it doesn't - then the boss is too easy. Part of the fun of a game is to learn from your mistakes and get better. I agree that there are many bosses that are too difficulty that players won't ever complete them. Those I can see the justification for a nerf down the line. But simply dying to a boss and getting the echo should not indicate that the nerf belongs. Many players want to figure out how to beat the boss without assistance.

Nope, I didn't say that. I said that if you see the echo buff, is because you're wiping. If you're wiping, it's because the content is somewhat difficult. People can always turn the echo buff off. If they don't, there's no one they can blame but themselves. I don't know what's the matter with that... I mean, it's the fact that OTHER people are beating the content with echo? because you have the power on that choice. With this last idea, I'm not pointing at you, just talking in a general sense.


Even if I don't like what I'm about to say, it's an alternative thought about echo: Some people are in a learning process. How many times you were bothered with doing the first phases over and over until you reach that "IMPOSSIBLE" phase? The echo speeds up those phases. They reach the phase they need to practice faster and faster. There's a learning, there's an effort. Even with the echo buffs, as I mentioned before, some fights have mechanics that they must learn before they can go even further. As the game moves on, there're content that will be utterly useless. We see that in WoW. We see that a lot in WoW, actually, and some others MMOs. (Except for Ragnarok Online, all the bosses were important and hard as f***). They have three choices: They can nerf the content (Amdapor Keep, Twisters, Titan HM), they can maintain its difficulty or they can implement both.

IMO, as the content becomes obsolete, those fights that were important and needed some dedication, will become a cake walk. This will help the people to move further into the new content. This is business, this has nothing to do with a gamer making his ideal game. You can't force people to eat a brick wall in a videogame because you'll lose customers. That's how I think it works nowdays.

Final thought: I don't like echo, but if I see my group can't make it, I'll use it. Because it'll help me and it will help them. If my group is capable of doing one-shooting a fight, we might not see this echo buff. This only applies to the content outside Coil.

Disclaimer: Sorry for my english. It's not my native language.
Edit: Spelling.

[Estellios]

@Salaphiel: Hey guess what, you can get the experience you want in 2nd coil. And since T1-5 are easier it means that you can get there sooner.

[MasamuneBranford]

@Salaphiel: Hey guess what, you can get the experience you want in 2nd coil. And since T1-5 are easier it means that you can get there sooner.

So basically you're saying its a good thing that SE nerfs everything except the final 4 mini dungeons? Why is it a good idea to push everyone to a mere 4 mini dungeons when those 4 mini dungeons will still be the most difficult content and offer the best gear for another 5 months. How can nobody see that it's too early to need content to bring people to this point? There isn't enough content to fall behind at this point. Wake me up when there is an expansion pack.

[SDaemon]

I actually agree with the OP and I guess I am a casual player.
2 days ago I started coil, which should be the most difficult content and I found out that people are farming it non-stop, because it's so easy.
I'm really disappointed, because it's just another boring speedrun instance and there is absolutely no sense of accomplishment doing it.

But well Square wants to milk those casuals so I guess it will continue.

Very very very few are "speedrunning" T5.

[Gormogon]

Why is content being nerfed in 3 months?

Because legitimate progression is gated behind the hardcore players and the rest that is considered progression like soldiery farming, primal, etc are actually illusion of progression because it implies that those people have the skill to do coil to begin with which they truly don't in the long run and a .5% boost is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

There's not a real progressive route.

Coil giving the best gear does not help. The farmable gear does not alleviate the difficulty of raiding because it's no where near the coil level gear and stat capping is ridiculous which is why Blizzard is doing away with hit.

Coil is a hardcore route.
Where's the progressive route that allows coil to be doable? CT -> Coil?
Where's the casual route that allows coil to be doable? Echo -> Coil?

Without proper balance like this we are left with a mechanic like echo as our only alternative to reach actual progression.

I don't think nerfs are making the game less fun to play, rather the lack of variety and fun content to do.

This as well

the small HardCore minority is not whats gonna keep this train rolling.

Totally agree tossing passengers aside is not a good selling point.