Make toptier end game based around 24-man content soon.

[Moheeheeko]

16 man Content DF.

2 Tanks only. Yeah two tanks is more than enough.
4 Healers.
10 DPS

to be fair in that setup you could probably do just 2 healers, as that's how many healers are usually actually doing something in CT, and that's 24 man.

As to the topic discussion, more people != more fun, Ill cite waiting 4 hours to fill a 40 man raid in WoW, only to have wiped on the first boss because one (yes one) person screwed up, causing the raid to disperse.

Wow the responses in this thread.

Why not just go buy a co-op RPG and give up playing MMOs?

I hope they put in content oriented toward Free Companies - 24 man content that will bring groups together.

If you want to do it you can join a Free Company - if you are a "solo" only or small group you've got the chat log and the Party Finder build a group and go. Keep Duty Finder strictly for 4/8-man content since we already know how big groups go (CT with randoms is downright painful.)

"Your opinion differs from mine, therefore you should quit playing"

Sure thing pal.

[Kletian]

Large FCs that want very difficult large scale raids are a tiny fraction of the gaming population, for every 300 man FC out there, there are thousands of people either not in an FC or an FC that doesn't do difficult raids. The cost benefit to designing and balancing things that the unconnected player will Never experience is not feasible. See Mr. Happy's video on the topic if you don't believe me.

[Amberion]

to be fair in that setup you could probably do just 2 healers, as that's how many healers are usually actually doing something in CT, and that's 24 man.

As to the topic discussion, more people != more fun, Ill cite waiting 4 hours to fill a 40 man raid in WoW, only to have wiped on the first boss because one (yes one) person screwed up, causing the raid to disperse.

I had an awesome time in FFXI doing sky. We usually where 20-35 members that came to each event.

As for the 4 hour waiting time. That is why it's more FC content then pick up. You set an event time, and usually you will only be 30ish min late to start it.

[Jubez187]

Eh, 24 man is wtf zerg fest anyways. Was unimpressed with CT honestly. I like 8 man coordination much more.

[Dhex]

Wow the responses in this thread.

Why not just go buy a co-op RPG and give up playing MMOs?

I hope they put in content oriented toward Free Companies - 24 man content that will bring groups together.

If you want to do it you can join a Free Company - if you are a "solo" only or small group you've got the chat log and the Party Finder build a group and go. Keep Duty Finder strictly for 4/8-man content since we already know how big groups go (CT with randoms is downright painful.)

[Lunavi]

So guys, do I get the majority of you right, you only want to spend your time in this game that has thousands of wonderful and beautiful people with 7 specific persons? That is the feeling I get by alot of you. Stop with that elite attitude of yours please. The hardest thing in this game right now is not to find 7 competent players to join forces with, it is to find 7 non egocentric arses who do not quit after 1-2 fails on an instance.

I think MMORPGs are the wrong genre for alot of you in here as what you seem to want to do is to play a Single Player RPG with bragging rights. MMORPGs should focus on the community and not who got the shiniest e-peen, and I think 24 man end game content would help with that at the same time as it will keep all classes relevant as time goes. Right now I can easily see any melee class getting replaced at any time as new classes enters the stage. This is a big concern of mine when that will only harm the community.

I agree with others above that bigger content than 24 man raids would be awesome aswell! I really hope SE creates good things like that. Might be a super FATE like Odin or Behemoth that requires alot of people (and I mean alot) to beat. Just like Odin/Behemoth when they were new

[Edellis]

Wow the responses in this thread.

Why not just go buy a co-op RPG and give up playing MMOs?

I think MMORPGs are the wrong genre for alot of you in here as what you seem to want to do is to play a Single Player RPG with bragging rights. MMORPGs should focus on the community and not who got the shiniest e-peen, and I think 24 man end game content would help with that at the same time as it will keep all classes relevant as time goes.

More like, we're playing FFXIV, where luckly the developers agree that 24-man content is a bit too tedious to make the endgame staple. So i think that means your idea is the one that's conflicting here.

This has nothing to do with E-peen, and everything to do with me UNFORTUNATELY not having hours and hours to waste on queue times. It's bad enough finding parties to do the content balanced for 8 players.


if it didn't take an average of 30 minutes to get into a typical 8-man party alone as a DPS, then maybe i'd agree with you. But that's cool, because the 8-man duties are quite sufficiently difficult for me to enjoy a challenge.

[Dhex]

More like, we're playing FFXIV, where luckly the developers agree that 24-man content is a bit too tedious to make the endgame staple. So i think that means your idea is the one that's conflicting here.

This has nothing to do with E-peen, and everything to do with me UNFORTUNATELY not having hours and hours to waste on queue times. It's bad enough finding parties to do the content balanced for 8 players.


if it didn't take an average of 30 minutes to get into a typical 8-man party alone as a DPS, then maybe i'd agree with you. But that's cool, because the 8-man duties are quite sufficiently difficult for me to enjoy a challenge.

That's a player mindset bred from poor content implementation; you should've been able to gather a full Alliance before entering the duty. That's on Square Enix - and now it's community is paranoid about large group content.


I say "Why not just go buy a co-op RPG and give up playing MMOs?" because 4-man dungeon runs, and 8-man "raids" a MMO does not make.

If FFXIV sticks to 4/8-man content you'll continue to have very small cliquey groups that enjoy playing "co-op" with each other exclusively with extremely negative and irrepressibly rude individuals flooding the Duty/Party Finder as we do right now. You'll continue to have large groups that are essentially fractured and unable to play together.

Why even bother calling this an MMO?

You have diametrically opposed communities in the game right now; extremely helpful nice players in Free Companies and Linkshell social networks groupings - and yet at the same time horribly angry and negative players in the public groupings.

Party Finder requirements are a great example; "EXP Only. You die = Kick. Know your role or uninstall!" etc. etc. You know where all this is bred? In the content. Lack of cohesive large social groups and content that encourages it. High requirements on gear and skill and no social responsibility is just bad news.

Big group content and larger communities tend to disabuse people of the notion that they can treat others like crap and continue to progress. Call it "forced friendship" but that kind of behavior and attitudes coming from anything but teenagers is downright embarrassing.

[Yurimi]

So guys, do I get the majority of you right, you only want to spend your time in this game that has thousands of wonderful and beautiful people with 7 specific persons? That is the feeling I get by alot of you. Stop with that elite attitude of yours please. The hardest thing in this game right now is not to find 7 competent players to join forces with, it is to find 7 non egocentric arses who do not quit after 1-2 fails on an instance.

I think MMORPGs are the wrong genre for alot of you in here as what you seem to want to do is to play a Single Player RPG with bragging rights. MMORPGs should focus on the community and not who got the shiniest e-peen, and I think 24 man end game content would help with that at the same time as it will keep all classes relevant as time goes. Right now I can easily see any melee class getting replaced at any time as new classes enters the stage. This is a big concern of mine when that will only harm the community.

I agree with others above that bigger content than 24 man raids would be awesome aswell! I really hope SE creates good things like that. Might be a super FATE like Odin or Behemoth that requires alot of people (and I mean alot) to beat. Just like Odin/Behemoth when they were new

That's a player mindset bred from poor content implementation; you should've been able to gather a full Alliance before entering the duty. That's on Square Enix - and now it's community is paranoid about large group content.


I say "Why not just go buy a co-op RPG and give up playing MMOs?" because 4-man dungeon runs, and 8-man "raids" a MMO does not make.

If FFXIV sticks to 4/8-man content you'll continue to have very small cliquey groups that enjoy playing "co-op" with each other exclusively with extremely negative and irrepressibly rude individuals flooding the Duty/Party Finder as we do right now. You'll continue to have large groups that are essentially fractured and unable to play together.

Why even bother calling this an MMO?

I dont believe it has anything to do with being elitest or wanting bragging rights. Most of us just think its a poor idea and like I said in my post the only one restricting you from playing with people outside your 8 man group is you. Just because we disagree with you doesnt make us elitest or wnating to play a single player game. If you want massive groups like that I could tell you to go play a plethora of other games, the fact of the matter is we are playing this game and are enjoying the current way things are set up. You are the odd one out here so maybe this isnt the right game for you maybe you should go find one that suites your needs better.

[Syrellaris]

I understand you think this can be solved by class balance, but it doesn't. The classes in this game is fairly balanced as it is, but that can not be said about the encounters. In 2.0 coil one was so heavily biased towards BRDs it was ridiculous and CT was biased towards Ranged DPS, making some parts almost impossible without them. Also, it is impossible making X classes that works just as well as the other ones for every encounter. This will lead to people not wanting certain classes for certain encounters and with that block the classes from progression. Image when there is more Melee classes. I am pretty sure people will still only want to take 1 melee solely for their LB.

The problem with increasing party sizes comes with the fact that Queuing would take much longer for individual persons. Not to mention that for end game content like raids a larger party size means more coordination, more headaches to get people online etc not to mention you are forcing smaller FC's which don't want to grow any larger to grow larger if they want to keep doing the content. 8 man raid groups is perfectly balanced number and it works. Looking at coil it is a complete uncoordinated cluster of chaos and there is also always one that never listens or cares etc. It doesn't work.

Take WoW for example, it started out with 40 man raids and it was always a nightmare to get 40 people log in on time and to get them ready to do things on a timely manner. There was always one that forgot something or still needed something or simply was late due to IRL circumstances. Even WoW saw this wasn't working correctly and dropped it to 10 man and 25 man content.