Rank cap increase every 1-2 years discussion thread

[kukurumei]

For the record, the orginal intent (and you can dig up old interviews) of relic weapons were in line with things like AV and maat cap.

In that it was a near impossible goal, and possibly on the whole server there would be 1-2 possible people able to wield it.

The fact that in hindsight changed so much is because it is true FF11 over estimated it's ability to keep the ideals in check and dragged the cap too long.

In the whole hoz vs vertical, given a topic like relic weapons etc, when you are getting stagnated at the top you know it's time to move up. When there is 10-20 people with relic weapon for instance, and 100 more on the journey, it's a good foreshadowing that the house has become too small to accommodate the current cap.

Basically content and simple progression was getting stale when you have bored people going after what should be only the extreme content.

This is also why WoW types need to raise it so freakin fast. The top was very active...very.

[Dragon]

I think SE could increase the level cap while keeping old content interesting by way of a limit break system akin to what FFXI uses, and as such I'll use FFXI terminology/data to demonstrate what I mean.



75-80 Requires Sky Access, as the NPC would be in Sky, and you'd be required to defeat all 5 major sky NMs: Byakko, Genbu, Suzaku, Seiryu, and finally, Kirin.
85-90 - Requires Limbus access, and you'd need to defeat both Proto-Omega and Proto-Ultima.
90-95 - Requires you to defeat the Dynamis Lord.
95-100 - Requires Dynamis-Tavnazia completion, Assault Rank Chief Sergeant, and 10 Nyzul Isle floors completed.

Those are just some examples, but as you can see it would still at least keep a lot of older content relevant by some degree or another. They could've done with Abyssea a lot of stuff they wanted to without making it necessarily any easier to level between 1-75 by simply requiring that you be X level to access a quest giving access to Abyssea.

[kukurumei]

I think SE could increase the level cap while keeping old content interesting by way of a limit break system akin to what FFXI uses, and as such I'll use FFXI terminology/data to demonstrate what I mean.



75-80 Requires Sky Access, as the NPC would be in Sky, and you'd be required to defeat all 5 major sky NMs: Byakko, Genbu, Suzaku, Seiryu, and finally, Kirin.
85-90 - Requires Limbus access, and you'd need to defeat both Proto-Omega and Proto-Ultima.
90-95 - Requires you to defeat the Dynamis Lord.
95-100 - Requires Dynamis-Tavnazia completion, Assault Rank Chief Sergeant, and 10 Nyzul Isle floors completed.

Those are just some examples, but as you can see it would still at least keep a lot of older content relevant by some degree or another. They could've done with Abyssea a lot of stuff they wanted to without making it necessarily any easier to level between 1-75 by simply requiring that you be X level to access a quest giving access to Abyssea.

Problem with that is the "opt-in" system. Expansions are not mandatory. The fact that access to the "end level" areas like sky, sea, etc, etc required the mission content clear goes a long way in making people experience content, they otherwise wouldn't have bother (and many times actually enjoyed it as a rite of passage type)

[Dragon]

Problem with that is the "opt-in" system. Expansions are not mandatory. The fact that access to the "end level" areas like sky, sea, etc, etc required the mission content clear goes a long way in making people experience content, they otherwise wouldn't have bother (and many times actually enjoyed it as a rite of passage type)

I don't see how you think expansions weren't mandatory in the long-run. To even get to 75, one had to have RoZ for the longest of time, then ToAU came which had better areas for getting to 75 once you hit 50+, which still had you go to RoZ-based areas prior...

The examples I gave would also require the mission completions just as well, so I don't see what your point is.

[kukurumei]

I don't see how you think expansions weren't mandatory in the long-run. To even get to 75, one had to have RoZ for the longest of time, then ToAU came which had better areas for getting to 75 once you hit 50+, which still had you go to RoZ-based areas prior...

The examples I gave would also require the mission completions just as well, so I don't see what your point is.

Because they weren't. It's a physical fact, trying to get psychological doesn't change that fact. There's no line blurring here.

You can suggest a change in business policy with regards to expansion prerequisites, but I think it's a logical foregone conclusion of just simply bad PR.

[Brotech]

I don't see how you think expansions weren't mandatory in the long-run. To even get to 75, one had to have RoZ for the longest of time, then ToAU came which had better areas for getting to 75 once you hit 50+, which still had you go to RoZ-based areas prior...

The examples I gave would also require the mission completions just as well, so I don't see what your point is.

Technically 50-75 was RoZ enabled. So Yes it was mandatory, however 1-50 it wasn't you could do it in all Original zones, no one did though, just because it was quicker not to.

[kukurumei]

Technically 50-75 was RoZ enabled. So Yes it was mandatory, however 1-50 it wasn't you could do it in all Original zones, no one did though, just because it was quicker not to.

Huh? do you mean leveling up camps or do you mean limit breaks? I assume you mean leveling up camps. Yes and no and sorta...

You could reach pretty high (they are possible to 75 but, by the PC/NA release it was a moot point) by going to Xarcabard and then to Zvahl the highest level for non RoZ.

It is still not mandatory. To this day you could potentially install and deinstall any of the expansions and never cared, and that's the way almost every expansion has been sold as.

It's just bad business, and bad PR.

[Ichi]

Auction girl, that's here say, no one from SE has said that they will be trying to keep old content relevant.

You can't honestly say that you don't understand the fears of the people against vertical progression what your saying sounds nice but the fact is were still running a risk by letting this game go by the way of 'vertical progression' as we all know it. I also think it's kind of funny how you claim to be speaking for SE and wanting the growth of the game but I bet if the game 'grew' but it grew into something you didn't like you wouldn't be happy. You seem to be under the assumptions that your wants are in line with the mass populace and I would have to beg to differ.

BTW keep this thread going guys we need some attention on this w.e they do they need to know our concerns on this please guys don't let me down. I've seen this community complain about much more useless crap. This is the first and only most important topic to me and it should be to anyone else who feels the same way.

I'm all for the growth of the game that goes without saying, that's why I'm discussing this at all (please don't undermine someone because they don't share your opinion). It's just well wishing and forum pandering.

[Duelle]

With ONLY Horizontal Progression, you soon limit the amount of players types you are targeting.

With BOTH Horizontal & Vertical Progression, you have the ability to target every player type in the game.

If the vertical progression is too slow, you will lose players. So making sure vertical progression keeps at a constant, and horizontal progression fills in the blanks. This will lead to the most successful game.

You have to be careful with implementation of the new content to be able to reuse some of the old, as to keep it all important. This gives new players things to do, along with old players helping the new players or just doing it cause it was fun.

I'm willing to go down this route, if need be. What I don't want is a repeat of the cap being the same for several years.

Something else I see here is "I don't want to level again". I don't see much of a problem with it, unless you're looking at leveling from a PoV where you expect leveling to be grind parties and only grind parties. In such a context, leveling is obviously going to be only slightly more interesting than watching paint dry.

[Brotech]

Auction girl, that's here say, no one from SE has said that they will be trying to keep old content relevant.

You can't honestly say that you don't understand the fears of the people against vertical progression what your saying sounds nice but the fact is were still running a risk by letting this game go by the way of 'vertical progression' as we all know it. I also think it's kind of funny how you claim to be speaking for SE and wanting the growth of the game but I bet if the game 'grew' but it grew into something you didn't like you wouldn't be happy. You seem to be under the assumptions that your wants are in line with the mass populace and I would have to beg to differ.

BTW keep this thread going guys we need some attention on this w.e they do they need to know our concerns on this please guys don't let me down. I've seen this community complain about much more useless crap. This is the first and only most important topic to me and it should be to anyone else who feels the same way.

I'm all for the growth of the game that goes without saying, that's why I'm discussing this at all (please don't undermine someone because they don't share your opinion). It's just well wishing and forum pandering.

My point exactly. I don't mind vertical progression, in fact its all I think will work for this game in its current state, it would require massive sweeping changes to alter it to a horizontal progression style. But all we have seen of vertical progression is it done badly, as far as I am concerned there has only been one good example of it, and that is FFXI to RoZ.
And that is what concerns me, if they make the same choices as every other vertical progression mmo out there, we are going to lose a huge portion of this fanbase.
Which from what I've seen so far, looks to be the direction they are going.
HOWEVER; If they play it smart, and develop a good vertical progression system, keeping older content valid, and useful, they will still lose some people, but not as much as the other way.
If they develop a cap, and plan to do horizontal progression from their they will still lose some people.

Any choice they make they will lose players, the amount of new players they keep however, depends on whether or not they make it enjoyable enough for those to stay, and whether or not it develops enough word of mouth PR.