Content sellers and Party Finder

[Purrfectstorm]

Or they'll join and ruin a PF group with their inability to handle the content.



Only the top 1% of players can consider themselves in the "competitive tier" of raiding. The only competition there, is competing for server/world first. If you're buying a run from a group, you're not even close to "competing".

Players that are buying runs can't win with you. If they suck and try to get better, they're ruining the PF group but if they buy content clears, they might later decide to try to do it legit and then ruin PF group again. This mentality irritates me because the people that talk this way are clearly motivated by the very competitive nature you're saying only the top 1% possesses - to keep "lesser" players content locked so you can be all "Har har har, I'm better than you!"

Like it or not, this does not make for a good game. If players can't clear content via winning or buying runs, they won't play, and a game of just the hardcore "elite" won't last very long. There's room for both types of players and the players who buy runs aren't affecting you negatively at ALL LOL

2 additional points:

1) This top 1% at the competitive tier that you mention - well how many people do you think would admit they're NOT in this competitive tier?

which brings me to...

2) Competition is about more than ability it's about mentality. Let's say a casual player buys a run and gets some new shiny piece of gear for it. They obviously know full well that they can't really compete with someone who can clear the content without buying it (although as a side tangent this often has more to do with who you know, last I checked instances require a competent party not just one individual). However, buying it allows them to not fall too far behind their competitive peers who may ridicule them for not having a fight unlocked or having obtained a certain piece of gear.

TL;DR Just admit you want players you think are weaker to be stuck behind you so that you can feel superior, don't try to hide behind the argument that buying runs is immoral.

[Raxion]

snip

It has nothing to do with keeping people behind me, competition, feeding my ego, or whatever you assume it to be. It's about people who are incapable of progressing through the content, paying their way through it. Instead of trying to learn an encounter with an FC, they just pay for the win, and progress on to even more challenging content that they're even less prepared for.

I openly admit that I'm not part of the top 1%. Nor do I want to be. I'm not saying that players should be indefinitely content locked either. I'm saying that players should work to overcome the challenging parts of the game, not just pay 400k and skip it. Why even play at all if you're just going pay for content clears? You're not even playing the game anymore, you're just paying other people to play it for you.

As for your TL;DR, you really shouldn't make such strong assumptions about someone that you know nothing about. You know what they say about assuming.

[Purrfectstorm]

It has nothing to do with keeping people behind me, competition, feeding my ego, or whatever you assume it to be. It's about people who are incapable of progressing through the content, paying their way through it. Instead of trying to learn an encounter with an FC, they just pay for the win, and progress on to even more challenging content that they're even less prepared for.

I openly admit that I'm not part of the top 1%. Nor do I want to be. I'm not saying that players should be indefinitely content locked either. I'm saying that players should work to overcome the challenging parts of the game, not just pay 400k and skip it. Why even play at all if you're just going pay for content clears? You're not even playing the game anymore, you're just paying other people to play it for you.

As for your TL;DR, you really shouldn't make such strong assumptions about someone that you know nothing about. You know what they say about assuming.

Ok, serious question then, why do you care about players paying for content wins then? I get that you don't think they should do it and I get why you don't think they should do it. I just want to know what your personal stake in the discussion is. Fair?

[Raxion]

snip

Truthfully, I find myself more annoyed with the people selling the runs than the people buying them. The higher FCs use the gil from these runs to gear their members with the HQ crafted/melded gear. This helps their group clear the harder content, but hurts the ones they sell to. If you're someone struggling with a certain encounter, and you see someone selling clears of said encounter, you're going to be very tempted to give in and just pay for it.

People that pay for runs just don't realize that they're only depriving themselves of the entire reason we all log in to play the game at all. To join a group of friends and take on the challenges together is the entire point of an MMORPG. If you're paying other people to clear encounters that you're not yet able to beat, why even bother with the game at all? You're only taking a bad situation and making it worse.

[kidvideo]

Ok, serious question then, why do you care about players paying for content wins then? I get that you don't think they should do it and I get why you don't think they should do it. I just want to know what your personal stake in the discussion is. Fair?

I'll tell you their reason. It's one of the rare opportunities for someone to stand proudly as they denounce other people & state in their unequivocal terms how bad others are. Merc groups are a litmus test. You're either against it, or you don't care & have no problem with it. What better platform for someone to feel self-congratulatory in their own accomplishments while they try to shame others. Very much like politics & religion.

No one should care as no one is getting hurt or harmed. So you see a shout in chat for a merc clear. That’s no different from any other LFM message. So someone give some gil to get help clearing T5. So what? The gear they may get from it isn’t tradable. The gear isn’t finite. It will be there for the next group.

Man…

[Raxion]

I'll tell you their reason. It's one of the rare opportunities for someone to stand proudly as they denounce other people & state in their unequivocal terms how bad others are. Merc groups are a litmus test. You're either against it, or you don't care & have no problem with it. What better platform for someone to feel self-congratulatory in their own accomplishments while they try to shame others. Very much like politics & religion.

No one should care as no one is getting hurt or harmed. So you see a shout in chat for a merc clear. That’s no different from any other LFM message. So someone give some gil to get help clearing T5. So what? The gear they may get from it isn’t tradable. The gear isn’t finite. It will be there for the next group.

Man…

There are so many things about this post that made me facepalm. It's like you saw an opening to let out some of your frustration towards players you assume to be elitists, built up a self-interpreted argument on their behalf, then shot holes in it to make it look like you were making sense.

Sure, some people get butthurt about others buying clears for those reasons, but it's definitely not the opinion of everyone that disagrees with the idea of buying content-clears.

They didn't get "help" clearing T5, they paid a group of better players to clear it for them. Big difference. Also, it has nothing to do with the gear that they might get from their paid run, it's that fact that they're now able to run T6 that's the problem. They're no more prepared for T6 than they were T5. Now they're just as stuck on T6, learned nothing, and are no better prepared to progress. Now they're just stuck there waiting until they can buy another content-clear.

[Purrfectstorm]

There are so many things about this post that made me facepalm. It's like you saw an opening to let out some of your frustration towards players you assume to be elitists, built up a self-interpreted argument on their behalf, then shot holes in it to make it look like you were making sense.

Sure, some people get butthurt about others buying clears for those reasons, but it's definitely not the opinion everyone that disagrees with the idea of buying content-clears.

They didn't get "help" clearing T5, they paid a group of better players to clear it for them. Big difference. Also, it has nothing to do with the gear that they might get from their paid run, it's that fact that they're now able to run T6 that's the problem. They're no more prepared for T6 than they were T5. Now they're just as stuck on T6, learned nothing, and are no better prepared to progress. Now they're just stuck there waiting until they can buy another content-clear.

OH, I finally get it. You and the people complaining about this are actually just looking out for those who are buying runs. You don't want others to go into future content unprepared (like being stuck until they can clear with 10 levels of echo doesn't do that lol).

[Raxion]

OH, I finally get it. You and the people complaining about this are actually just looking out for those who are buying runs. You don't want others to go into future content unprepared (like being stuck until they can clear with 10 levels of echo doesn't do that lol).

Echo only stacks on Primals. Echo doesn't guarantee a kill either. Echo "helps" players down content. Paying for clears doesn't help anyone but the seller.

I'd have to say you're just about out of ideas if you're comparing the Echo buff to outright paying for content-clears

[kidvideo]

It's like you saw an opening to let out some of your frustration towards players you assume to be elitists

Not at all.

Now they're just stuck there waiting until they can buy another content-clear.

Who cares? All of the arguments against mercs is "But they might have gotten gil from RMT", "But they won't learn mechanics", "But they, but they, but they" . No one has said "But it negatively affects MY playing experience for THIS reason..." Because it doesn't. /end.

[Purrfectstorm]

Not at all.



Who cares? All of the arguments against mercs is "But they might have gotten gil from RMT", "But they won't learn mechanics", "But they, but they, but they" . No one has said "But it negatively affects MY playing experience for THIS reason..." Because it doesn't. /end.

Thanks for saying this. That's kind of what I was trying to get across. It reminds me of a lesson I learned in my Conflict Resolution class last summer:

An assertiveness message should be: When you do X it makes me feel Y because of Z. And the effects should be concrete and tangible i.e. when you leave out my tools, it makes me feel frustrated, because they'll get rusty. The tools getting ruined are the concrete, tangible effect. Those arguing against buying runs have so far been unable to even express this in concrete terms.

The experts say that when you try to get people to change their behaviors without there being concrete, tangible effects that two things are true:

1) you are intruding on another person's values space

and

2) your efforts will not be successful.