Content sellers and Party Finder

[kidvideo]

Ok, serious question then, why do you care about players paying for content wins then? I get that you don't think they should do it and I get why you don't think they should do it. I just want to know what your personal stake in the discussion is. Fair?

I'll tell you their reason. It's one of the rare opportunities for someone to stand proudly as they denounce other people & state in their unequivocal terms how bad others are. Merc groups are a litmus test. You're either against it, or you don't care & have no problem with it. What better platform for someone to feel self-congratulatory in their own accomplishments while they try to shame others. Very much like politics & religion.

No one should care as no one is getting hurt or harmed. So you see a shout in chat for a merc clear. That’s no different from any other LFM message. So someone give some gil to get help clearing T5. So what? The gear they may get from it isn’t tradable. The gear isn’t finite. It will be there for the next group.

Man…

[Raxion]

I'll tell you their reason. It's one of the rare opportunities for someone to stand proudly as they denounce other people & state in their unequivocal terms how bad others are. Merc groups are a litmus test. You're either against it, or you don't care & have no problem with it. What better platform for someone to feel self-congratulatory in their own accomplishments while they try to shame others. Very much like politics & religion.

No one should care as no one is getting hurt or harmed. So you see a shout in chat for a merc clear. That’s no different from any other LFM message. So someone give some gil to get help clearing T5. So what? The gear they may get from it isn’t tradable. The gear isn’t finite. It will be there for the next group.

Man…

There are so many things about this post that made me facepalm. It's like you saw an opening to let out some of your frustration towards players you assume to be elitists, built up a self-interpreted argument on their behalf, then shot holes in it to make it look like you were making sense.

Sure, some people get butthurt about others buying clears for those reasons, but it's definitely not the opinion of everyone that disagrees with the idea of buying content-clears.

They didn't get "help" clearing T5, they paid a group of better players to clear it for them. Big difference. Also, it has nothing to do with the gear that they might get from their paid run, it's that fact that they're now able to run T6 that's the problem. They're no more prepared for T6 than they were T5. Now they're just as stuck on T6, learned nothing, and are no better prepared to progress. Now they're just stuck there waiting until they can buy another content-clear.

[Sapphic]

Yes, because you would need a specific ilevel to enter it. And therefore you buy it if you don't have it.

No, Because you still have to clear Garuda and titan for ifrit, and turn 5 for coil 2.

Try again?

[Purrfectstorm]

Maybe because treasure map hunting takes no skill, is pure RNG based, and is something anyone can do?

That's not really a good analogy.

It's a perfect analogy. People aren't just farming to get their minions. Check the minion sales history. People will pay gil (anywhere from 200k to 1m on my server) for a minion that does absolutely nothing aside from vanity purposes. There are not forum threads accusing the people that bought those minions of using gilseller services.

Where are they getting that money if not a gilseller? Well there are many other ways, which is kind of my point. There isn't much aside from vanity and carries to spend gil on. That so many people are buying spring dresses, tonberry minions, and carries is not proof of rampant gil buying activity, just proof that many people (myself included) enjoy the casual aspect of the game and have nothing better to do with the gil we've earned in legit ways.

Most of my gil has been earned through crafting/gathering although I've done many map parties as well and you can make a ton of gil just doing roulette especially as a needed class (I main a tank so I generally qualify). Then there's the challenge log for even more gil. Lots of gil coming in and nothing to spend it on is why people can afford carries, minions, etc.

[Purrfectstorm]

There are so many things about this post that made me facepalm. It's like you saw an opening to let out some of your frustration towards players you assume to be elitists, built up a self-interpreted argument on their behalf, then shot holes in it to make it look like you were making sense.

Sure, some people get butthurt about others buying clears for those reasons, but it's definitely not the opinion everyone that disagrees with the idea of buying content-clears.

They didn't get "help" clearing T5, they paid a group of better players to clear it for them. Big difference. Also, it has nothing to do with the gear that they might get from their paid run, it's that fact that they're now able to run T6 that's the problem. They're no more prepared for T6 than they were T5. Now they're just as stuck on T6, learned nothing, and are no better prepared to progress. Now they're just stuck there waiting until they can buy another content-clear.

OH, I finally get it. You and the people complaining about this are actually just looking out for those who are buying runs. You don't want others to go into future content unprepared (like being stuck until they can clear with 10 levels of echo doesn't do that lol).

[kidvideo]

It's like you saw an opening to let out some of your frustration towards players you assume to be elitists

Not at all.

Now they're just stuck there waiting until they can buy another content-clear.

Who cares? All of the arguments against mercs is "But they might have gotten gil from RMT", "But they won't learn mechanics", "But they, but they, but they" . No one has said "But it negatively affects MY playing experience for THIS reason..." Because it doesn't. /end.

[Zaels]

It's a perfect analogy. People aren't just farming to get their minions. Check the minion sales history. People will pay gil (anywhere from 200k to 1m on my server) for a minion that does absolutely nothing aside from vanity purposes. There are not forum threads accusing the people that bought those minions of using gilseller services.

Where are they getting that money if not a gilseller? Well there are many other ways, which is kind of my point. There isn't much aside from vanity and carries to spend gil on. That so many people are buying spring dresses, tonberry minions, and carries is not proof of rampant gil buying activity, just proof that many people (myself included) enjoy the casual aspect of the game and have nothing better to do with the gil we've earned in legit ways.

Most of my gil has been earned through crafting/gathering although I've done many map parties as well and you can make a ton of gil just doing roulette especially as a needed class (I main a tank so I generally qualify). Then there's the challenge log for even more gil. Lots of gil coming in and nothing to spend it on is why people can afford carries, minions, etc.

Then the analogy should be people whose names are on the transactions list, not people who own one. It's kinda silly to accuse someone that owns one for buying gil when the people who purchased them are on public record.

[Raxion]

OH, I finally get it. You and the people complaining about this are actually just looking out for those who are buying runs. You don't want others to go into future content unprepared (like being stuck until they can clear with 10 levels of echo doesn't do that lol).

Echo only stacks on Primals. Echo doesn't guarantee a kill either. Echo "helps" players down content. Paying for clears doesn't help anyone but the seller.

I'd have to say you're just about out of ideas if you're comparing the Echo buff to outright paying for content-clears

[Purrfectstorm]

Not at all.



Who cares? All of the arguments against mercs is "But they might have gotten gil from RMT", "But they won't learn mechanics", "But they, but they, but they" . No one has said "But it negatively affects MY playing experience for THIS reason..." Because it doesn't. /end.

Thanks for saying this. That's kind of what I was trying to get across. It reminds me of a lesson I learned in my Conflict Resolution class last summer:

An assertiveness message should be: When you do X it makes me feel Y because of Z. And the effects should be concrete and tangible i.e. when you leave out my tools, it makes me feel frustrated, because they'll get rusty. The tools getting ruined are the concrete, tangible effect. Those arguing against buying runs have so far been unable to even express this in concrete terms.

The experts say that when you try to get people to change their behaviors without there being concrete, tangible effects that two things are true:

1) you are intruding on another person's values space

and

2) your efforts will not be successful.

[Purrfectstorm]

Echo only stacks on Primals. Echo doesn't guarantee a kill either. Echo "helps" players down content. Paying for clears doesn't help anyone but the seller.

I'd have to say you're just about out of ideas if you're comparing the Echo buff to outright paying for content-clears

1) Echo was a parenthetical note - I'd say you're the one who's out of ideas if you're attacking a parenthetical note rather than my main point (which is that you don't give a damn about other players being stuck on content).

2) Let's see if you can clear content being extremely overgeared with tome gear and when echo is increased to 10 or 15 stacks. Maybe SE will take away Titan's landslide like they took away the bees from AK. The point isn't whether or not you can clear content with echo, the point is that SE fully intends every player to eventually be able to clear every piece of content, one way or another. If echo doesn't cut it, they'll just do something else that will and players still might not be ready for the next piece of content.