Please Release a Difficult 24-Man

[kukurumei]

CT looks like it was designed as a gearing up raid for coils, but because they have it backwards it doesn't work as intended.

No it was intended, you not liking it doesn't mean it's bad.

2.0 without CT meant only the hardcore can push through coil and their i73 gear, fighting an uphill battle for months until they peiced together enough gear from myth and alligan. Bascially 5% of the user based even attempted coil much less got pass turn 1/2.

2.1 bridge that gap with CT drops that enabled higher ilvl average. You had i70+i80+i90 to mix and match, making a lot more people attempting coil and winning it.

without ct: upper echon of the population at end game
with CT: large population attempting coil

2.0 for the world hardcore
2.1 for the normals catch up
2.2 hard core
2.3 normals catch up

It's a decent system.

[Gesser]

Agree, the problem is though they are releasing the hard 8 man content before the easier 24 man content which is totally backwards.

By the time the next CT comes out everyone will be walking around in Alagan 2 and AF2.

CT looks like it was designed as a gearing up raid for coils, but because they have it backwards it doesn't work as intended.

This. Totally this.

If things were reversed it could've been totally fine. As it is, CT is a joke & will remain a joke so long as a higher tier precedes it.

[Gesser]

No it was intended, you not liking it doesn't mean it's bad.

1) it wasn't intended. CT was meant to be released at launch but they had to postpone it.

2) he never said he disliked it nor did he 'necessarily' say it was bad.

3) please don't create grave assumptions & in doing so disrupt the useful conversation.

On-Topic: like I said in my original post... I'm all for having an achievable 24-man for the casual crowd. I just feel a 24-man should exist that is moderately challenging (as opposed to CT's pathetically easy steamrolling) for somewhat larger FC's to be able to play all together. As it is, FC's of even low-medium size are forcibly segregated into 8-man static divisions.

It's no fun having 11 friends on & having to leave 3 of them out to fend for themselves & etc. Even if CT were to implement all-FC queue (planned), it's no fun for any decently we'll geared groups after you've stomped it with ease a thousand times over. Which will continue if they don't break the cycle somehow or introduce a finer challenge in the 24-man bracket.

I have been thinking however... I would be totally fine with 16-man rather than 24, which I think would make for a fine compromise.

Not too hard to manage nor collect members, could be ever so slightly 'easier' than BC to accommodate for the increased # of participants. It could drop interim gear between that of 24-man CT & 8-man BC (i85).

Thoughts?

[Kuroyasha]

When SE releases something anywhere near difficult people complain to the point that they nerf it. Moggle king got nerfed ffs; I thought it was a nice fun challenge. Turn 5 got nerfed early on. Qarn got nerfed to the point you can just ignore the lasers altogether -_-.

i hope Extreme Moggle king isn't just Thornmarch pre-nerf.

Watch when 2.2 comes out. Something's gonna be difficult in coil and some hoard of peeps will cry for a nerf.

[Gesser]

When SE releases something anywhere near difficult people complain to the point that they nerf it. Moggle king got nerfed ffs; I thought it was a nice fun challenge. Turn 5 got nerfed early on. Qarn got nerfed to the point you can just ignore the lasers altogether -_-.

i hope Extreme Moggle king isn't just Thornmarch pre-nerf.

Watch when 2.2 comes out. Something's gonna be difficult in coil and some hoard of peeps will cry for a nerf.

If people have such an issue with difficulty... I say instead of nerfing content to the ground for the whiners... simply have an "echo-enabled" option for groups. Content made instantly easier... to compensate for the reduction in difficulty, they could reduce the ilvl of the drop by 10.

Perhaps only an option when in full-party so it doesn't disrupt queue times. PF groups would just mention or have an icon to indicate it's an "echo-run".

[kukurumei]

1)

3) please don't create grave assumptions & in doing so disrupt the useful conversation.

You're the one creating assumptions. CT was originally set for release at a much harder rate, but the gear plan itself was not. Their plans was always in alternation, it just wasn't tweaked right.. And Yoshi even stated that he intended for this progression.

If you ever managed to scrub though the CT interview section. CT itself was not hard like ilvl hard. It was gimick hard in that there was too high of a ceiling for error then they wanted it. Basically think of almost every fight that ended up like atamos. Except instead of 4 people on the platform we had 6, etc.

Same CT with less derps.

If you're claiming that I am putting words in SE's mouth, you're tripling it.

Developers made it clear that they wanted a "end game focus" then a "catch up focus" alternation. You are so focus on the 1st that you are ignoring the 2nd.

[Jinko]

You're the one creating assumptions. CT was originally set for release at a much harder rate, but the gear plan itself was not. Their plans was always in alternation, it just wasn't tweaked right.. And Yoshi even stated that he intended for this progression.

If you ever managed to scrub though the CT interview section. CT itself was not hard like ilvl hard. It was gimick hard in that there was too high of a ceiling for error then they wanted it. Basically think of almost every fight that ended up like atamos. Except instead of 4 people on the platform we had 6, etc.

Same CT with less derps.

If you're claiming that I am putting words in SE's mouth, you're tripling it.

Developers made it clear that they wanted a "end game focus" then a "catch up focus" alternation. You are so focus on the 1st that you are ignoring the 2nd.

Yea it was postponed but it was still intended to fit between AK and coil.

As you said coil was a lot harder than intended because people were attempting it in the wrong gear, which was kind of my point.

I have been thinking however... I would be totally fine with 16-man rather than 24, which I think would make for a fine compromise.

Not too hard to manage nor collect members, could be ever so slightly 'easier' than BC to accommodate for the increased # of participants. It could drop interim gear between that of 24-man CT & 8-man BC (i85).

Thoughts?

Sounds good, too good to happen :P

[Gesser]

You're the one creating assumptions. CT was originally set for release at a much harder rate, but the gear plan itself was not. Their plans was always in alternation, it just wasn't tweaked right.. And Yoshi even stated that he intended for this progression.

If you ever managed to scrub though the CT interview section. CT itself was not hard like ilvl hard. It was gimick hard in that there was too high of a ceiling for error then they wanted it. Basically think of almost every fight that ended up like atamos. Except instead of 4 people on the platform we had 6, etc.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth or SE's mouth. I was telling you that you were putting words in the mouth of the person you were judging prior (which was true).

And I have managed to scrub through the CT interview. I am well aware of these things... my point still stands. Yoshi did state he intended for this progression, but not in such an order which is the point I was making. It was intended to come at launch alongside BC1-5.

[Gesser]

I really hope the new CT in 2.3 drops i95. Needs to be more challenging than LotA & fill a gap not currently present (shouldn't equal Soldiery, in yet we have plenty of avail. i90 atm).

[alhandra]

whats wrong with the idea of there being both? why cant difficult 8 man and difficult 24 man co-exist? if people dont care for large scale difficult raids then they also shouldnt be bothered by not being able to get the loot from those raids. why would they need it if they aren't going to do the hard stuff anyways?

oh thats right, we live in the age of socialist welfare MMO's were everyone deserves the same loot regardless of time or effort put in