Why don't skilled players help people who are struggling?

[Welsper59]

Most d-bags/jerks like that are of the mind that they "worked" to get to the point they are "by themselves". The reality, however, is that it wouldn't be a farfetched assumption to say that every one of those people didn't truly do things to get to that point by themselves. They looked at guides for fights/itemization, took advice from friends/party members (be it to play the class or figure out fight mechanics), died and was carried through a fight, etc. There are very few people who find the time to experiment for themselves, and given the behavior of the mentioned jerk, chances are they wouldn't even fathom the idea. You shouldn't really look at those people with angst or hatred, but rather with pity and sympathy for their idiocy and ignorance. It's like watching a crippled man hate the world and everyone around him.

[RumiP]

every one of those people didn't truly do things to get to that point by themselves. They looked at guides for fights/itemization, took advice from friends/party members

The same information is available to everyone when it is published. Anyone can read a guide and start a static group. So I don't see your point.

You shouldn't really look at those people with angst or hatred, but rather with pity and sympathy for their idiocy and ignorance. It's like watching a crippled man hate the world and everyone around him.

And this is just a laughable degree of dramatics.

[Welsper59]

The same information is available to everyone when it is published. Anyone can read a guide and start a static group. So I don't see your point.

It's basically the idea that those people simply think they did everything exclusively on their own, as though they didn't rely on another persons/groups efforts to reach that point... when they clearly did. Their level of success is attributed to other peoples work and efforts, which obviously includes the effort put into a guide, as well as their own of course. It's along the lines of a false and misguided "holier/mightier than thou" sort of outlook.

And this is just a laughable degree of dramatics.

I would hope so lol. Part of the appeal of pity and sympathy on the internet for ignorant people is the laughable nature of it.

[RumiP]

It's basically the idea that those people simply think they did everything exclusively on their own....

You mean to tell me that there is no work involved when you ready a text guide or watch a video to coordinate your teammates to execute the kill? Sometimes you don't have a party makeup identical to the guide, so you figure out other ways to make it work. That's what I meant by learning. We can all read a twintania guide and generally understand what the fight is about, but the learning is figuring out how your team needs to act, how you need to play around them and they you. This is only something wipes and attempts will teach.

Effort is still spent, guide or not, to ensure your team can win. What little experience you must have to sell that short so easily.

If it was as simple as reading a guide, then there wouldn't be much argument would there? There's been Twin guides out for ages now, and now people have the echo to help, but it's still proving to be a challenging fight for a lot of people to accomplish.

[Welsper59]

You mean to tell me that there is no work involved when you ready a text guide or watch a video to coordinate your teammates to execute the kill? Sometimes you don't have a party makeup identical to the guide, so you figure out other ways to make it work. That's what I meant by learning. We can all read a twintania guide and generally understand what the fight is about, but the learning is figuring out how your team needs to act, how you need to play around them and they you. This is only something wipes and attempts will teach.

Effort is still spent, guide or not, to ensure your team can win. What little experience you must have to sell that short so easily.

If it was as simple as reading a guide, then there wouldn't be much argument would there? There's been Twin guides out for ages now, and now people have the echo to help, but it's still proving to be a challenging fight for a lot of people to accomplish.

Not at all. I've never said it wasn't an effort on their end. In fact, I've made the effort to imply that with words like "exclusively" and my latter saying "as well as their own of course". That last one should be the dead give away that I'm not saying there's no effort put forth by those people.

My entire point is the mentality that many people have, where all of the effort is, again, exclusively a result of their own. That there was never any involvement or work/effort on the part of another that got them to that point (essentially ignoring someone elses work through guides/help). And because of their efforts, everyone should be exactly like them, 100% perfect in every way for any given part of the game. Had that been an actual consideration on the jerks part, hostility to new players wouldn't be as abundant... it'd exist, but potentially to a smaller degree. There's just a lack of humility and a focus on the ego-centric and self-interest (which can extend to friends and such). Trust me when I say that being a pioneer is a much different experience than simply doing what you're told and following what others have done (maybe adapting it to suit your needs). You just can't compare the effort between the two, but that's another matter.

The idea from the OP is "what's wrong with just helping someone?" Why do you need to take advantage of your own situation for personal gain when it really isn't entirely needed? Mind you, I'm not saying people who do charge or expect rewards for their efforts in helping are bad people. That's 100% normal in my book. It's just a question of why can't we be generous once in a while when we know we easily could be.

[Doo]

Most d-bags/jerks like that are of the mind that they "worked" to get to the point they are "by themselves". The reality, however, is that it wouldn't be a farfetched assumption to say that every one of those people didn't truly do things to get to that point by themselves. They looked at guides for fights/itemization, took advice from friends/party members (be it to play the class or figure out fight mechanics)

Sounds like they made a pretty good amount of effort to get better to me while the ones that generally need help are the "who needs to watch a video" and "I play for fun don't tell me how to play"

[Sapphic]

Most d-bags/jerks like that are of the mind that they "worked" to get to the point they are "by themselves". .

So you are saying good players researched their roles, rotations and strats utilizing available resources and guides on the Internet.

So answer me this: Whats stopping other players doing the same and utilizing guides on the internet also instead of expecting everyone to teach them?

It is no-one elses "job" to teach anyone else if they don't want to. Those who strongly want to make it available through FFXIV resource sites and forums.

Players who want to learn can also use the party finder to find people willing to help. Instead of jumping into a random party in DF and expecting others to do foe them that they could have, with a little effort, done themselves.

What if the new player is on a class/job that no-one else in the party has experience on enough to give them advice on how to utilize their abilities? Do you think that they should stop and go and study that class/job so they can "advise them"?

I can advise someone on BRD (which I main) PLD (which I use to cover if we short in static for a night), WHM and even BLM. SMN, im totally out of practice with. So if a SMN was needing advice, I couldn't give it. But if I play SMN again I would use the resources available, either through the internet, asking friends outside of a dungeon and practice on overworld mobs and dummys before setting foot in a dungeon. Not jump in a dungeon and expect someone else to teach me. Something which everyone can do.

[Welsper59]

So you are saying good players researched their roles, rotations and strats utilizing available resources and guides on the Internet.

So answer me this: Whats stopping other players doing the same and utilizing guides on the internet also instead of expecting everyone to teach them?

It is no-one elses "job" to teach anyone else if they don't want to. Those who strongly want to make it available through FFXIV resource sites and forums.

Players who want to learn can also use the party finder to find people willing to help. Instead of jumping into a random party in DF and expecting others to do foe them that they could have, with a little effort, done themselves.

What if the new player is on a class/job that no-one else in the party has experience on enough to give them advice on how to utilize their abilities? Do you think that they should stop and go and study that class/job so they can "advise them"?

I can advise someone on BRD (which I main) PLD (which I use to cover if we short in static for a night), WHM and even BLM. SMN, im totally out of practice with. So if a SMN was needing advice, I couldn't give it. But if I play SMN again I would use the resources available, either through the internet, asking friends outside of a dungeon and practice on overworld mobs and dummys before setting foot in a dungeon. Not jump in a dungeon and expect someone else to teach me. Something which everyone can do.

Reread the post you quoted and then take a look at the follow-ups I gave to RumiP for additional clarity. I recommend you read my statements carefully too. I tend to use very important and defining words to clarify them. I have a feeling you'd have the same puzzled responses if you don't... or maybe even if you do. /shrug

[Doo]

Reread the post you quoted and then take a look at the follow-ups I gave to RumiP for additional clarity. I recommend you read my statements carefully too. I tend to use very important and defining words to clarify them. I have a feeling you'd have the same puzzled responses if you don't... or maybe even if you do. /shrug

Probably because the players you described are pretty rare.

[Welsper59]

Probably because the players you described are pretty rare.

They're not that rare, from my experience. Though I guess they have been thinned out as time went on for this game. You'll usually still see them if something goes wrong in CT and Titan HM though. There's a few of those sorts in an LS I'm in as well. You'd be surprised about how often people actually fit well into the type of person I'm referring to and don't realize it themselves.