Yoshi-P: Atma drop % = "it's just luck"

[skaterger]

An insult to RNG purists...? Are you kidding me? I seriously doubt that were will be a mass exodus if the developers added a cutoff that only affected the most extreme cases of people being screwed over.

No more than those who threaten to leave cause of the Atma grind, that's for sure.

[Jerichai]

No more than those who threaten to leave cause of the Atma grind, that's for sure.

I tend to consider being frustrated over having to continue a mindless chore for days longer than others simply over luck more of a valid complaint over people who may get upset over a stop-gap to help the unluckiest outliers.

Seriously...your argument reeks of the idea that RNG purists will complain when there isn't a certain percentage of the population being screwed over by dated game design. Grinds can still exist without being arbitrarily punishing. Setting up systems to cover the unluckiest 5-10% of cases will not suddenly make the Atma section any less of an RNG grind for the other 90-95%

[Duuude007]

being screwed over by dated game design.

Seeing that zenith players can easily (by design) clear t7, "screwed over" is a gross overstatement, but I digress.

[Jerichai]

Seeing that zenith players can easily (by design) clear t7, "screwed over" is a gross overstatement, but I digress.

While you're right...the issue usually arises with the community itself. I haven't played an MMO in the last decade where I haven't seen a growing portion of the community start to require an unnecessarily high level of gearing relative to the content the majority are working on.

Given that the relic weapon is going to continue to grow relative to the available content (some even saying ilvl 115), I won't be surprised when a growing number of groups start having a Novus relic requirement for turns 6 and 7...but I digress

[Duuude007]

While you're right...the issue usually arises with the community itself. I haven't played an MMO in the last decade where I haven't seen a growing portion of the community start to require an unnecessarily high level of gearing relative to the content the majority are working on.

Given that the relic weapon is going to continue to grow relative to the available content (some even saying ilvl 115), I won't be surprised when a growing number of groups start having a Novus relic requirement for turns 6 and 7...but I digress

All evidence points toward future top tier weapons being tied in first. End raid and end relic.

Difficulty to earn must remain proportionally the same, one for skill, one for time.

So far, I feel they are working toward that goal quite well. Even if small tweaks may be needed, a full redesign seems totally unreasonable.

[RyuDragnier]

All evidence points toward future top tier weapons being tied in first. End raid and end relic.

Difficulty to earn must remain proportionally the same, one for skill, one for time.

So far, I feel they are working toward that goal quite well. Even if small tweaks may be needed, a full redesign seems totally unreasonable.

I'm not so sure the top end weapons will be the same in strength, and I'm using the next upgrade of the Relic, the Novus, as the example. If enough people get the Atma/Animus before 2.28, they'll add Novus there, before a new Coil is added, making it surpass the T9 weapons. Plus I've heard whispers that the Novus may give 5 stats instead of just 4, which would make it far more useful up until probably the 3rd Coil's end.

[Duuude007]

I'm not so sure the top end weapons will be the same in strength, and I'm using the next upgrade of the Relic, the Novus, as the example. If enough people get the Atma/Animus before 2.8, they'll add Novus there, before a new Coil is added, making it surpass the T9 weapons. Plus I've heard whispers that the Novus may give 5 stats instead of just 4, which would make it far more useful up until probably the 3rd Coil's end.

theres magazine posts in jp showing progression of relics from i100 animus to i115... novus. and it wasnt 2.8, it was 2.28, mid may.

[Yukiko]

Most i have talked with have already given up on their secund job because of atma and myth farm for books afterwards...
Most who do not have their animus yet said they will give up on novus weapon when i told them it is planed for 2.25 -> delayed to 2.28 was a good move from SE to motivate at least some to finish the quest...
They lowered some achivements because ridiculous ammount of time you needed... Once again they show us, that it is not in their interest to let us play more than one job!

SE have completely lost their overview. At least on achivements you can work from level 1 onwards, but those atma is limited to conditions that makes it impossible for any newcomer to ever complete it for ONE job (special after 2.8)...

[skaterger]

snip

The reason why people who like rng find the idea of any goal oriented grind or a failsafe so abhorrent is simple. Knowing the outcome and how long it takes to get there is mind numbingly boring. The heart will not race, the ears will not perk up of the Atma ding after every fate. It's just 1 down, 99 more to go.

But the bigger question is why must there be a failsafe? What's wrong with failing? Are gamers so spoilt nowadays that they must get everything in a relatively short span of time? Now before you run off calling me am elitist, ask yourself this. Is is a failure of the players or the failure of the system? Coming from the same server ooshima I can vouch for everything he said. In addition in my fc, those that have persevered in farming Atma have all got theirs a long ago while those that have not spend more time complaining than farming and those are just a few.

If anything the cutoff system is a lazy system that is worse than either pure rng or pure X number of fates. It seems like you want to hope to get lucky while not being susceptible to bad luck. Each system has its flaws and strength and it seems you want to have the cake and eat it at the same time.

[Jerichai]

Snip

Your argument is having an RNG system with an extreme case failsafe completely eliminates RNG....ummm...okay. If the failsafe was set to 100, as an example, that's still 99 attempts for 'thrill of RNG'...per ATMA. That's still pretty RNG friendly if you ask me.

And I've never argued failure is bad. For instance, failure to complete a raid boss isn't bad. Failing a fight is an indication that your raid team needs to be stronger...a challenge to improve mechanics and group coordination. That is a good kind of failure in video games, because it forces the player to get better to achieve success. Failing the Atma grind doesn't do that. When you fail to get an Atma, you just go to the next fate and hope RNG favors you there.

And yes, failing this can have negative impacts on the players. Some people like working on long term quests like the relic. Others like the lore aspect, such as the small lore tidbits Gerolt gave players about their jobs in the first part of the relic quest. Others may be having equally bad luck with the other weapon drops and are starting to fall behind on the content their gear realistically allows them to do. When a system stops people from participating in the content they enjoy...solely based on an arbitrary decider like being unlucky with RNG...yes that is a failing of a system.

And I still don't think putting in a failsafe to limit the pain for the worse off outliers would have zero impact on your enjoyment.