A way to keep both casual and hardcore players happy

[SpookyGhost]

Why? Why is one being more entitled than the other? You still believe that you are owed something because of some class or status that has no real bearing on anything. Both are entitlement, just of different kinds. Neither is more or less than the other. Besides, no one is asking for everything to be handed to them on a silver platter, they just want equal access to content that everyone is paying money for. And therein is the only class or status that matters; we're all paying for this game, we should all have access to all of it.

So, alright, I think you're a bit confused on what "access to content" means. Let's say you bought a game like... Banjo Kazooie, yeah? For those that don't know, in BK you at first only have access to one world (Mumbo's Mountain). By participating in Mumbo's Mountain you get access to Jiggies (puzzle pieces) which you use on puzzles in different areas of the hub world to gain access to the next world. To unlock new areas in the hub world, you also need musical notes, which are also scattered throughout every world you visit. Now, would you expect them to remove this system entirely so you can access every world whenever you want to, even going as far as fighting the last boss 5 minutes into the game? Because you payed for the game, are you entitled to skip EVERYTHING and go straight to the end? No, you're really not - and if you don't like that, video games aren't for you. You should, instead, invest in buying a movie - something you CAN skip straight to the end of and cut out all the rest of it. I don't think that's the best way to enjoy a movie... but it is an option you have, and an understandable one. But in video games, you're expected to have to beat x to get access to y, otherwise I... don't really get why you're playing the game in the first place.

Basically, everyone has access to the challenge - that content isn't locked away, it's right there. Beat it and you get a reward, or access to new content where you can get an even greater reward (Coil1 -> Coil2). That's video games.

[Whiteprincess]

Maybe just do what other game does. normal mode= boom casual ppl play the content area. Heroic mode= boom= hardcore can be all they can be, and casuals can go if they want to as well..... that and/or show the grinding progress in a window would be nice. i dont mind the 2nd part of the new relic weapon quest. i can see a clear road map for progression. the 1st part atma/fates... progress over time is kinda invisible until you see the atma in your bag.... which makes ppl complain. Being able to see you are gaining x amount of myth for books... clear cut you see the progress you are making and are a bit more satisfied. The chain quest just wasn't well written for both play styles.

SE will never win both sides are too picky lol stupid humans

[TheRogueX]

So, alright, I think you're a bit confused on what "access to content" means. Let's say you bought a game like... Banjo Kazooie, yeah?

Ah, but your analogy is completely and utterly flawed. You see, in single player games like BK, there's this awesome thing called a Difficulty selector that allows more casual players to make the game easier so that they can, oh, experience all the content in the game that they paid for. That way all players have equal access to all content. Your entire argument is, well, thrown out the window.

Because you payed for the game, are you entitled to skip EVERYTHING and go straight to the end?

Again, no one is asking for this. We're just saying that everyone who is paying for the game should have equal access to all the content. Somehow, all players, casuals included, should be able to see and experience all parts of the game. Basically, any part of the game that has story elements should be accessible to any and every player. "Hardcore" players and raiders can have Hard or Extreme modes of dungeons and trials that exist for 'challenge' and 'loot,' but do not advance the story at all, and I think the casual players will be ok with that.

[Thorauku]

we're all paying for this game, we should all have access to all of it.

Seriously, if every player will think like this, you guys should stop playing MMOs and just stick with an offline games.

- Others are paying to play all contents at ease.
- Others are paying to play all contents at a certain difficulty.

Please tell me an MMO where there's no difficult at all.

Edit:
In addition, everyone have access to all contents atm, it's just that some wants the content to be handed out to them in a silver-platter, mind you, that's not how an MMO works regardless if you're paying or not.

[SpookyGhost]

There's no difficulty selector in BK.

Even on games with them you still have to beat level 1 to get to level 2.

They already nerfed Coil with the Echo, eventually it's going to allow you to close your eyes and beat Twintania.

I agree that old content should be phased out and allow everyone to pass it regardless of skill level, however... it's a video game. If you don't want to at least surpass a tiny hurdle, you're better off just watching a movie. Alternatively, don't play XIV 'til a good number of patches so that you have a huge amount of facerolling content to go through.

I just find it strange that people are in it for the lore and the story (which is fine, I am too!), but don't want to be challenged to progress further in it. I do think that the challenge should be scaled in a way similar to CT, in that you have to account for the fact that people in your team WILL likely mess up many, many times... but I think for 8m dungeons, making them as easy as CT... idk. I'd begin to wonder if these people have played an FF before in the first place. lol

[Argurios]

I have to agree with SpookyGhost on this, the content is avaialable to everyone -its up to the individuals to decide if they want to access it.

[AbbyNorml4]

I find it amusing that people are even debating on this.. If you have already cleared the content, then what difference does it make if it is nerfed. Or if echo is added... For new players that come in that are hardcore players they'll just breeze through and catch up to to current content. Just sayin'

[XNihili]

People play for the loot, casual and hardcore alike.
We could implement 3 ways to get the same loot :
- the hardcore way by plowing through a very hard dungeon with lots of challenge and guaranteed loot.
- the casual grindy way that takes a very long but easy enough to do whenever you have 1h to kill
- the super duper abysmal RNG that is like playing the lotomog on FFXI
This way, everybody is happy except people who want everything easily right now.

[AiChyan]

Its posts like this and some replies posted which make me wish I never called myself casual. Very cringe worthy and embarrassing ugh.

[Lafiele]

I have put a lot of thought into what it would take to keep both types of players in an MMO happy. Giving serious consideration to what it is both types of players want, I have come up with an idea I feel is a solid one.

Here is the deal:
Casuals want to be able to experience the full game without having to spend too much time on things like grind.
Hardcores, want things like grind because they extend the amount of time they can spend on the game while feeling progression.

At first glance, both types of players want complete opposite things so it's impossible to keep both happy. But thats not necessarily true. Here is my suggestion:

Make grinding content happen AFTER all playable content.

Let me explain. As the game is designed right now, things like extreme primals and coil are very challenging, while also having relatively high ilvl requirements. That means that you have to do some grinding in order to upgrade your gear to so much as attempt them. This is what pushes casuals away. Casuals don't want to have to grind for amazing gear in order to experience the primals and/or coil. Therefor, I suggest that the gear be acquired faster and easier for all players so casuals can be happy and experience all the content without having to spend too much time.

Hardcores, as I said, want extended playability. Which is why I suggest that the game implement much much more content like the relic atma/animus quest. *BUT* i suggest that this extensive quest can not even be started until you have beaten all primals and coil turns. This way, casuals are happy because they experienced all the content, and hardcores are happy because they still have plenty to aim for even after clearing everything.

Now, I understand that some will criticize this idea because they would be aiming for the best gear,but they have already beaten all the content. I can't speak for hardcore players, but I don't think this would matter to them. Again, I *think* that for them it's more about having goals than it is about facing primals or turns with the best gear. To further reinforce this theory, hardcores are always rushing to beat content so you just know for a fact that they aren't doing it with the best gear. And to expand even more on that, coil is the hardest content and it drops the best gear. And hardcores don't seem to mind that they obtained the best gear but they don't really have anything to "use" it against.

And lastly, IF hardcores wanted to use the gear they obtained post playable content and through grind, I suggest the devs implement time trials for primals and coil. Casuals generally don't care much for things like time trials. They just want to beat the content. But this would be amazing for the hardcores because there will always be a record to beat. Even tanks and healers would enjoy the added challenge of timed trials as they would be forced to contribute to DPS in order for best results.

Hope you all like and support my suggestion

Since i90 ish has been shown to be able to be used to clear up to t9, I don't think gear is really a problem to begin with.... Primal extremes can be easily done in anything around i80. Casual is also not a definition of bad/new/noob players. Bad/new/noob players are can be both hardcore and casual. Personally, i've met more bad hardcore players than casuals. So yeah... gear is not what's holding "casuals" back. There is actually nothing holding casuals back since atma and animus etc aren't even a core requirement to complete any of the content in the game including coil, not to mention that it's not that hard to get anyways...

Really, bad players are just bad and need to learn and improve. Don't try lump themselves as "casual" and demand the game to lower difficulty level for you. Casual and hardcore is just a difference in the amount of time you spent in game, not the skill of the player.
Yes, it may hurt your pride a bit to admit that you're not as good as you thought you were.