Now that leves will be gone from our main exp function...

[AlexiaKidd]

Duelle this thread is about making multiple forms of gaining SP/EXP and the only way that can be achieved for Grind Parties to become viable is to remove the cap. If everything was fine as is then there would be grind parties everywhere but there is not and this cap is one of the reasons for that.

Now if you do not like Grind Parties then that is fine this thread is about supporting other ideas that allow for other ways to gain SP/EXP and you should look into those. My preferred way would be to have Grind Parties as one of the options and the easiest way to achieve that would be to remove the cap along with other adjustments. The other way to do it would be to buff mobs a lot so that a mob that was the same rank as you would actually be an even match and a challenge, that would make something that is 10 ranks above you impossible to kill solo and would require a party to do so. Obviously further adjustments to SP/EXP would be needed to make this happen but I feel as though this way while I would prefer this way it would anger a lot more people.

[Duelle]

Duelle this thread is about making multiple forms of gaining SP/EXP and the only way that can be achieved for Grind Parties to become viable is to remove the cap. If everything was fine as is then there would be grind parties everywhere but there is not and this cap is one of the reasons for that.

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time I keep in mind the implications of how that would affect party dynamics. Not even level correction is much of a deterrent when it comes to it.

As was put so well, the problem is more people being able to solo mobs 10 ranks above them. If you ask me, I'd go with the idea to create an "elite" bracket for mobs and have those be in dungeons and be grinding targets in the open field.

It's a difficult situation seeing that if you make normal mobs more difficult you'll have to up SP gains upon kill. If you create elites, you need to place them somewhere where they won't intrude on your average traveler when not in the context of dungeons. Level correction would still have to be fiddled with to a degree. I'd go the WoW route and make it so that anything more than three levels/ranks higher than you as normal mobs would be very difficult and elites being near impossible to kill, and balance combat between PCs and NPCs around that.

[Zoltan]

I'm just going to throw this out there, but I don't see it as a mob difficulty issue. I see it as an SE issue where they don't scale the SP with the difficulty of the mob that you kill. Rather they capped the SP at 10 levels above your rank and give you the SP for a much lower level mob.

There are many difficult mobs that no one kills because the risk/reward is unbalanced.

No one mentions that they really ramped up the SP per level in FFXIV versus FF11. I know they won't change that now because that's not SE's modus operandi, but I thought that I'd throw it out there. 44001 XP to level from 75-76 in FF11 compared in FFXIV from 31~32 it's 45,000SP. (XP is useless in FFXIV once you hit the 50 cap). It still is a valid comparison because the SP per mob is comparable. Yes, leves, etc. skew the comparison, but when you're grinding DoH at 280-300sp per synth and it's 45,000 until you get your next rank, that's one hell of a grind.

[Kiote]

Oh yea, I also meant to point out that there is a tier system in this game.. You may get capped SP at 10 level over your own but there is still variation. Some types of enemies cap at 200 other cap at 350.. If your not getting good SP in your grind you should try fighting something else.

[Zoltan]

Oh yea, I also meant to point out that there is a tier system in this game.. You may get capped SP at 10 level over your own but there is still variation. Some types of enemies cap at 200 other cap at 350.. If your not getting good SP in your grind you should try fighting something else.

What about when you solo a red mob that is over 10 levels above you and you get 120SP?

[Rydin]

What about when you solo a red mob that is over 10 levels above you and you get 120SP?

Then you should probably not be fighting Chigo's, beetles, fireflies and rats...
Also these cap out at 150, not 120, so maybe you were in -20% fatigue

I don't know about you, But personally i am ok with a R45-49 Spiny dormouse giving less SP than an R45-49 mistbeard buccaneer, or R45-49 Qiqirn Poacher
Both of which will cap out at 300 or 450

[Zoltan]

Well, I was a level 4 LNC and I destroyed a red copper coblyn for less SP than the green coblyns. Didn't seem fair, but I just figured it was another SE "FU".

It does seem like when groups take down tougher mobs than their level that the SP is not equivalent with the difficulty of the mob.

Fatigue strikes again. Praise the 12! Save us from fatigue!

[Rydin]

Well, I was a level 4 LNC and I destroyed a red copper coblyn for less SP than the green coblyns. Didn't seem fair, but I just figured it was another SE "FU".

It does seem like when groups take down tougher mobs than their level that the SP is not equivalent with the difficulty of the mob.

Fatigue strikes again. Praise the 12! Save us from fatigue!

Well 1-20 is a special case... SE changed the SP at low level so all the talk about level SP cap tiers is different for R1-R20

[Kafeen]

R45-49 Spiny dormouse giving less SP than an R45-49 mistbeard buccaneer, or R45-49 Qiqirn Poacher
Both of which will cap out at 300 or 450

Then why give the mobs levels at all if they aren't representative of the difficulty of the mob?

If the dormouse is easier to kill and gives less exp, shouldn't it just be a lower level mob than the Buccaneer and Poacher?

[Physic]

Then why give the mobs levels at all if they aren't representative of the difficulty of the mob?

If the dormouse is easier to kill and gives less exp, shouldn't it just be a lower level mob than the Buccaneer and Poacher?

no, a dragon who is experienced as you, shouldnt be the same as a rat who is experienced as you. some things are just tougher because of who they are. If you make every monster the same exp, then why fight anything that has high hp? why fight anything that has strong special attacks? This is especially important with level difference systems, because if the rat was lower level it would be weaker and take more damage just from that alone.

This allows you to design interesting monsters and also have multiple playstyles. Rats might be better for soloists, because they have less hp, whereas a dragon is made more for a larger grooup to fight. also you can make enemies that die fast, or enemies that take long without making one intrinisicly better than the other.
Perfect example is you can make as much sp at certain levels chaining puks as you can from killing crabs, because although puks die faster, crabs give more sp. This allows people in the same level range to have different target monsters based on thier own party makeup/number of people.

now the problem becomes, accurately balancing the risk/reward/speed when deciding each species base sp levels.

truthfully more rpgs have worked on the concept of differnt species giving different sp/exp/gil rather than just a straight level difference.

another good thing about it, is you dont end up hunting rats forever, as they introduce better monsters, and you have better stats/gears/teamwork, you can take on harder monster types.
Your a bad ass when you choose to get SP off of dragons, more so then when you try to get sp off of a rat.

It was sad that in FFXI level 70 people would still seek out the things they killed as level 1 newbs, like crabs to exp on, because they were the same as fighting an ancient undead warrior. To me it makes a lot more sense.