Now that leves will be gone from our main exp function...

[kukurumei]

Possibly because too much resources is being put into more conventional functions that are well...broken or missing.

FF14 is pretty barren when it comes to what is consider "xp"ing. In other games there was a straight line to xp, not FF14 who hasn't gotten even the basics right.

It is to the sad fact though that it's tied to the combat and job system. Once those are down, you can make up fluffy stuff like hamlet defense.

Right now you can't even get people to stick around much less fight something for xp.

[Wolfie]

Possibly because too much resources is being put into more conventional functions that are well...broken or missing.

FF14 is pretty barren when it comes to what is consider "xp"ing. In other games there was a straight line to xp, not FF14 who hasn't gotten even the basics right.

It is to the sad fact though that it's tied to the combat and job system. Once those are down, you can make up fluffy stuff like hamlet defense.

Right now you can't even get people to stick around much less fight something for xp.

Yep.

What's the point of adding supposedly cool content now, when all combat devolves into spamming random actions with almost no strategy or consequences? Dungeons, hamlet defenses, questing, whatever... all of those sort of assume that they players have to get together and do meaningful things in a party. Otherwise, they'll just be adding more snoozefest zerg fights in the game, except these now have a different name.

[Physic]

Yep.

What's the point of adding supposedly cool content now, when all combat devolves into spamming random actions with almost no strategy or consequences? Dungeons, hamlet defenses, questing, whatever... all of those sort of assume that they players have to get together and do meaningful things in a party. Otherwise, they'll just be adding more snoozefest zerg fights in the game, except these now have a different name.

uhh battle only "devolved" into that when they made the cap lower than 10 levels. Back when they had large level difference groups, you needed dedicated healers, dps, and tanks, who were completely kitted for those roles. you couldnt spam random actions with no consequences, your dmg would suck and the monster would take forever to kill.

Imagine FFXI if you were forced to fight even match in 6 man groups, tanks would be useless, mages would get by with cheap cures with no cares, blm wouldnt get to nuke much, because stuff would die faster than they could cast an ancient magic.
oh wait it would seem to become a mindless spam fest and zerg fights.
It has nothing to do with battle and everything to do with the SP reward system, which wasnt the initial SP plan, soooo i dont think i could blame the original plans for that, it was the hastily added fixes that caused it. Back in the original SP system, good partying and not zerging was the best way to get SP, and you attacked monsters as high as you were able to kill at a decent speed.

A tank had to tank well, or people died, people had to dodge WS, or the mages had to cure it up and remove effects, DD needed to optomize their damage, guess what, spamming reg attacks is not the most damage. Using tp skills from your base class is the most damage. in fact, even better damage now, would be using small BR chains.

No battle system will be a non zerg fest versus monsters 1 person can solo its simple mathematics.

[Rydin]

uhh battle only "devolved" into that when they made the cap lower than 10 levels. Back when they had large level difference groups, you needed dedicated healers, dps, and tanks, who were completely kitted for those roles. you couldnt spam random actions with no consequences, your dmg would suck and the monster would take forever to kill.

Imagine FFXI if you were forced to fight even match in 6 man groups, tanks would be useless, mages would get by with cheap cures with no cares, blm wouldnt get to nuke much, because stuff would die faster than they could cast an ancient magic.
oh wait it would seem to become a mindless spam fest and zerg fights.
It has nothing to do with battle and everything to do with the SP reward system, which wasnt the initial SP plan, soooo i dont think i could blame the original plans for that, it was the hastily added fixes that caused it. Back in the original SP system, good partying and not zerging was the best way to get SP, and you attacked monsters as high as you were able to kill at a decent speed.

A tank had to tank well, or people died, people had to dodge WS, or the mages had to cure it up and remove effects, DD needed to optomize their damage, guess what, spamming reg attacks is not the most damage. Using tp skills from your base class is the most damage. in fact, even better damage now, would be using small BR chains.

No battle system will be a non zerg fest versus monsters 1 person can solo its simple mathematics.

I see your point
A zerg fest or tank and spank easy content wasn't the fault of the battle system so much as it was the MOBs
You can build MOBs that require skillful play under the only battle system

A Beast MOB with a tough outer... And you need to incap each part to do any real damage on it...
Incap moves don't do much damage (Because of the shell) so you need a really big BR to put enough damage on to break the shell
But incaps are tough if you can't build TP to do the weaponskills....
Siphon TP, Comrade in Arms and Invigorate help...
You use your Archers, Marauders and Pugilist to incap the headshell... Finally....
You have a choice.... everyone can attack from the front (And risk being hit by a massive AOE) or you can try to incap the sides or rear shells
Also Incapping the head (After the head shell has been incapped) will stop him from using that massive front AOE... so thats what you decide to do...
You could have also chose to incap the right shell and then the right arm underneath it to stop his physical counterattack but you decide to try to heal through it...

Challenging play isn't just in the battle system, you've just got to build interesting MOBs
Add some minions to that battle... give him a huge HP pool and you've got yourself a fight

[Rydin]

Possibly because too much resources is being put into more conventional functions that are well...broken or missing.

FF14 is pretty barren when it comes to what is consider "xp"ing. In other games there was a straight line to xp, not FF14 who hasn't gotten even the basics right.

It is to the sad fact though that it's tied to the combat and job system. Once those are down, you can make up fluffy stuff like hamlet defense.

Right now you can't even get people to stick around much less fight something for xp.

Well i dare say: Had there been an overwhelming amount of content from day one, people would have been less likely to notice stuff like copy/paste environments and buggy features
Idle minds....

[Wolfie]

Well i dare say: Had there been an overwhelming amount of content from day one, people would have been less likely to notice stuff like copy/paste environments and buggy features
Idle minds....

That's true, but people still would have been frustrated with poor combat system. And if this game DID launch with dungeons and hamlet defenses and whatnot, there's a chance that those would have been boring zergs like behest.

It's almost a good thing that this game was so skeletal at launch. Once Yoshi puts all the bones back together and plasters the cracks, it's going to be easier to put some meat on those bones. =D

[Rydin]

That's true, but people still would have been frustrated with poor combat system. And if this game DID launch with dungeons and hamlet defenses and whatnot, there's a chance that those would have been boring zergs like behest.

It's almost a good thing that this game was so skeletal at launch. Once Yoshi puts all the bones back together and plasters the cracks, it's going to be easier to put some meat on those bones. =D

That's the only thing... adding content before you re-do the battle system means you'll have to rebalance the content after... I get that... just wishful thinking

I agree with both sides of the fence here. Like many I voted for a battle system overhaul and believed that it was needed first. Since then however, my group has pretty much run out of things to do while we were still able to tolerate the current battle system, so for selfish reasons I kinda wish I would have asked for a bit more content before they fixed the battle system.


I must say though, I was very surprised that some form of "level-sync" had not been included in this launch. IMO that made it much more fun to go grind XP with your friends. I actually had several friends who quit playing FFXIV very early because they quickly fell behind and didn't want to play alone.

I would love it if Hamlet defense was added as an event who's primary reward was SP. I'm actually for any type of dynamic content where players have to react to something unexpected. They could add a "town crier" who could alert people in town shortly before a "defense operation" was to take place. It would be great if they were rare enough to make them exciting but giving a LOAD of SP so people flock when they get the chance. Just a thought.

Waves and waves of MOBs would be GREAT SP... and it really could tie into companies.... Beast MOBs are great SP as it stands

[giftforce]

Waves and waves of MOBs would be GREAT SP... and it really could tie into companies.... Beast MOBs are great SP as it stands

Dude, stop thinking about SP.

FFXIV players have a one track mind.

[Takedakai]

Well i dare say: Had there been an overwhelming amount of content from day one, people would have been less likely to notice stuff like copy/paste environments and buggy features
Idle minds....

I agree with both sides of the fence here. Like many I voted for a battle system overhaul and believed that it was needed first. Since then however, my group has pretty much run out of things to do while we were still able to tolerate the current battle system, so for selfish reasons I kinda wish I would have asked for a bit more content before they fixed the battle system.


I must say though, I was very surprised that some form of "level-sync" had not been included in this launch. IMO that made it much more fun to go grind XP with your friends. I actually had several friends who quit playing FFXIV very early because they quickly fell behind and didn't want to play alone.

I would love it if Hamlet defense was added as an event who's primary reward was SP. I'm actually for any type of dynamic content where players have to react to something unexpected. They could add a "town crier" who could alert people in town shortly before a "defense operation" was to take place. It would be great if they were rare enough to make them exciting but giving a LOAD of SP so people flock when they get the chance. Just a thought.

[Kafeen]

Party Based MOB Grinding:

*Multitude of camping spots for each level range in different areas, and since the maps are big enough, so you don't have to fight over mobs.

I really hope this isn't what party play is reduced to. Guildleves are repetitive but nothing is more repetitive than standing in one spot killing the same type of mob again and again.