DPS ignoring hate/threat/aggro

[Tayne]

If dps outgear you by a lot, keeping hate can get hard. A few things that might help

-Mark targets. Or at least mark the initial target. If people want to ignore that mark, they can just tank whatever themselves.
-Noone else pulls. Initial agro helps you get all the critters in range for flash or overpower without them running all over.
-Tell people that if they get hate, they should run TO the tank. Trying to save the dps in the back running around in circles will just make you lose hate from the rest of things.
-Shield Lob at the start is your friend to get some quick hate.
-Some DPS are actually quite capable with dealing trash mobs themselves. Sometimes it's just faster and safer to let them tank it, especially if they are geared.

[Ricdeau]

If dps outgear you by a lot, keeping hate can get hard. A few things that might help

-Mark targets. Or at least mark the initial target. If people want to ignore that mark, they can just tank whatever themselves.
-Noone else pulls. Initial agro helps you get all the critters in range for flash or overpower without them running all over.
-Tell people that if they get hate, they should run TO the tank. Trying to save the dps in the back running around in circles will just make you lose hate from the rest of things.
-Shield Lob at the start is your friend to get some quick hate.
-Some DPS are actually quite capable with dealing trash mobs themselves. Sometimes it's just faster and safer to let them tank it, especially if they are geared.

Yeah, I run into this a lot. I get into dungeons with far more gear than the tank, and it's inevitable that I'm going to get threat on something even with marked targets. So I just end up tanking something, and tell the tank to not worry about it. I've gotten into dungeons with fresh tanks and I was i90 (90+ now). They have no chance in that scenario so I can't get mad about that, but I think I might be one of the few that doesn't get all up in arms because the dungeon wasn't completed in 15 minutes or less.

[Rextab]

thanks ZD. i do tell them that. they keep right on with their ways.
ill be glad when i can somewhat close the gear gap between me and those type of players.
people seem to forget they once were low level too, and then they develop a severe case of elitism.
its a team game, but there are some that only care about "I" and blame everyone else for their own sloppy play.

i can try the flash spam when i see these aoe crazy people, but i am not sure it will hold. i already do it quite a bit to maintain aggro on mass, but i am also switching targets and doing my combos.
while i dont think they should make hate generation like some other games (tank breathes on a mob and its stuck to them like glue), i think the hate generation for tanks, at least for paladins, should be buffed just a smidge. maybe 5 to 10% i think would be enough.

[Kitru]

i think the hate generation for tanks, at least for paladins, should be buffed just a smidge. maybe 5 to 10% i think would be enough.

It already has been buffed by a crapload. Any more and they might as well just get rid of enmity altogether and just have enemies target tanks automatically.

[Rextab]

possibly adjusted in relation to gear level? it doesn't seem to scale with other roles. players should play smarter, but lets face it many can't or frankly just won't.
a tanks role is to hold threat against the dps and healer. the ilvl range is just far to vast for a tank to seemingly keep up with their threat generation unless they lay off a bit.
not much i can do about it except time. but at the same time i dont like being cursed at and accused of sucking simply because my gear isnt there yet. again, people forget what is like to be a relatively fresh 50.

[Ricdeau]

possibly adjusted in relation to gear level? it doesn't seem to scale with other roles. players should play smarter, but lets face it many can't or frankly just won't.
a tanks role is to hold threat against the dps and healer. the ilvl range is just far to vast for a tank to seemingly keep up with their threat generation unless they lay off a bit.
not much i can do about it except time. but at the same time i dont like being cursed at and accused of sucking simply because my gear isnt there yet. again, people forget what is like to be a relatively fresh 50.

My best advice is to try to get your guild (if you're in one) to help blow through some dungeons to try to get some gear. The problem when being paired with i90 DPS is that some of us are somewhat on/off switches. Sure I can lay off, but I'm not going to much of anything at that point. Usually when I have a tank in your situation I just warn them ahead of time what's going to happen and not to sweat it since I can easily tank trash along side the tank. However, you won't see people that are very accommodating for a fresh 50. Unfortunately you'll just have to muster through for the most part, or as you said quit because you don't want to be yelled it. It's turned into a shark tank for the lower end content at 50 unfortunately.

[Valendore]

It already has been buffed by a crapload. Any more and they might as well just get rid of enmity altogether and just have enemies target tanks automatically.

Good, I think it should be removed or pumped up like in WoW, where dps and healers cannot even come close to tanks in threat. Having it this way would fix sooo many of the complaints we see. What is the number 1 complaint about tanks? Cannot hold threat. With so many people deciding not to tank because of all the complaints, lets fix that problem so more people would be willing to tank again, including myself. I want to tank in this game, but past games and what I read here prevent me from doing so.

[Kitru]

Good, I think it should be removed or pumped up like in WoW,

At which point you have to ask what the entire point of the system is? If tanks get aggro without any effort at all (so simply by facerolling), why should healers or DPS have more than 1 button to push? The enmity subgame makes tanking at least somewhat challenging and makes it more interesting. Removing or "fixing" anything that's remotely challenging or interesting because some people can't handle it just makes it mind numbingly boring for those of us who can actually play the game.

If you don't like the enmity subgame, don't tank because the enmity subgame is a fundamental part of tanking. Asking for the enmity subgame to be excised from tanking is no better than asking for the resource subgame to be completely removed so that everyone can spam everything forever and ever because some people have no idea how to maintain their TP/MP.

[Elrin]

At which point you have to ask what the entire point of the system is?

The point of the system is so that the game knows which target an enemy should be attacking. Managing that system isn't fun for a lot of people, though. That's why some MMOs, WoW being the primary example, have moved away from threat/aggro being a fundamental part of tanking and instead give tanks more control over their own survival.

In WoW, tanks' focus is on generating resources to allow them to use their primary defensive abilities. For example, warriors use Shield Slam and Revenge to generate rage, and spend rage to activate their Shield Block or Shield Barrier abilities, which reduce the damage they take. This makes their survival more dependent on their own actions in combat (rather than the stats on their gear, or the actions of their teammates) and to generally play more like DPS does, which a lot of people find more fun.

[EvilHippie]

I main war and yesterday I had a new thm that liked to pull early during a low level dungeon. I flat out told him you pull it you tank it. The pt laughed at him as he pulled and died then we all went on to finish the dungeon without issue. He had learned his lesson.