The number of bad players are rising!

[Aikaal]

Who hires the good player? Gil run sellers? All that stuff is charity work. If you choose to help it can take hours of your time continuously wiping before the new player learns.

You don't get paid but at the end of the dungeon, you get myth/soldiery tome + loot which is the same. It's the same as a student don't get paid but his reward is his grades. If you don't want to help the person and you have multiple wipes, you can always leave the group and get a timer. You don't have to be stuck with a baddie if you don't want.

This is from personal experience but when good players don't help those in need and they beleive they are hopeless, they are usually elistist jerks. Those people in raid will be the first ones to abandon a duty and they are considered toxic players. I'd rather share my knowledge to someone that will use it then being stuck with a toxic player.

[ispano]

You don't get paid but at the end of the dungeon, you get myth/soldiery tome + loot which is the same. It's the same as a student don't get paid but his reward is his grades. If you don't want to help the person and you have multiple wipes, you can always leave the group and get a timer. You don't have to be stuck with a baddie if you don't want.

This is from personal experience but when good players don't help those in need and they beleive they are hopeless, they are usually elistist jerks. Those people in raid will be the first ones to abandon a duty and they are considered toxic players. I'd rather share my knowledge to someone that will use it then being stuck with a toxic player.

No, not really. The "student" gets "paid" the same. Also the last bit there, is like you live a fantasy. Yes, some people will take that information and use it, and most of us have no problem giving it either. But there are enough people who lash out against said advice, that it's not worth it sometimes, and this is where we get the "hopeless" comments from.

When someone refuses to learn or improve because "it's just a game" and they want to play their way, in a group effort mind you, who's REALLY the one in the wrong?

[Aikaal]

This situation reminds me when killing Twin was a thing in my FC. The healer was tired of people wiping over and over on dive bombs and kept saying people were bad and stop doing shit. This is an easy fight, why are we still wiping on this. That guy is a really good player, don't get me wrong. But his attitude was shit. The group got tired of him and they replaced him with a healer that never entered T5. It took them two days to get Twintania down when they spent a week with that guy.

They taught that healer the fight, she did mistakes but they were patient. They didn't get paid, their reward was the kill of Twintania. I'd rather be with a bad player than a good player being a bad person.

The usual scenario is the person who'se doing something wrong will almost all the time want to improve. But most players will think he can't and they don't give him a chance.

[ispano]

-snip-

But that's the thing, in my experience, and others in this thread, that's NOT the norm. The norm for us is the person lashes out against ANY advice, given on good terms or not.

[Aikaal]

Then I have to agree with you. If the person think he's doing good but he's obviously fail. You can't do much but I,ve never had to deal with it in DF. People usually take my advices because they want to improve. When i face that situation, I just leave the duty and craft for 30 minutes.

There's also two way to give advices.

The first way: "Stop being a noob and save your CDs to burn the snakes. For God sake."
The second way: "In this situation, you have to save your CDs for the snakes, they need to die asap or the tanks and melees will die from the debuff."

I can guarantee you the person will most likely listen to the second way more than the first way. There's more details and you haven't insult him.

[ispano]

Then I have to agree with you. If the person think he's doing good but he's obviously fail. You can't do much but I,ve never had to deal with it in DF. People usually take my advices because they want to improve. When i face that situation, I just leave the duty and craft for 30 minutes.

There's also two way to give advices.

The first way: "Stop being a noob and save your CDs to burn the snakes. For God sake."
The second way: "In this situation, you have to save your CDs for the snakes, they need to die asap or the tanks and melees will die from the debuff."

I can guarantee you the person will most likely listen to the second way more than the first way. There's more details and you haven't insult him.

And that's the thing. MOST good players in my personal experience DON'T bash the person. There's always "that" guy of course, but most don't. But my main point in this is that everyone is always quick to blame or bash the "elitist", especially if the person giving advice isn't sugar coating the advice, but isn't being "mean" about it either. When people on the other side of the coin are just as bad if not worse.

There's always been two type of good players. Toxic and good players. This is unfortunately a reality. Likewise, there's two kind of bad players. Those who want to improve and the douches lol.

That's actually rather narrow minded, there's far more than two types. And I don't mean minor differences either. Also, people really need to stop using the word toxic, it's horribly inaccurate for what they're using it for.

[Aikaal]

And that's the thing. MOST good players in my personal experience DON'T bash the person. There's always "that" guy of course, but most don't. But my main point in this is that everyone is always quick to blame or bash the "elitist", especially if the person giving advice isn't sugar coating the advice, but isn't being "mean" about it either. When people on the other side of the coin are just as bad if not worse.

There's always been two type of good players. Toxic and good players. This is unfortunately a reality. Likewise, there's two kind of bad players. Those who want to improve and the douches lol.

[Aikaal]

That's actually rather narrow minded, there's far more than two types. And I don't mean minor differences either. Also, people really need to stop using the word toxic, it's horribly inaccurate for what they're using it for.

Toxic is appropriate as they poison the fun of other players. I don't get fun to get bashed and downed by someone but I do when the person help me and I achieve something I normally wouldn't have.

[RyuDragnier]

Toxic is appropriate as they poison the fun of other players. I don't get fun to get bashed and downed by someone but I do when the person help me and I achieve something I normally wouldn't have.

There's a difference between me asking a DRG to use their DoTs and Heavy Thrust, and telling him to do so. Yet I still get flamed for asking and get called a toxic player, despite the fact that I want the player to improve so he gets better and the run gets smoother. This happened to me yesterday, btw.

[LordSliver]

There's a difference between me asking a DRG to use their DoTs and Heavy Thrust, and telling him to do so. Yet I still get flamed for asking and get called a toxic player, despite the fact that I want the player to improve so he gets better and the run gets smoother. This happened to me yesterday, btw.

Yes this totally, I noticed making any kind of suggestion gets you yelled out or something by said person you are trying to help out or throw out ideas that might help.