Is this your first Final Fantasy? Or do you just not remember grinding in past games?

[Desidious]

RNG or not.

A grind is still a grind.

[Doo]

ps: then don't come here talk of game of another era or not even an mmorpg for make your point! the mmorpg have evolve if you can't accept it!! quit it!

Evolved? I thought mmos are still stuck in the "WoW" era?

[silentwindfr]

i did play FF11, but i will not use it as comparaison with FF14 ARR, the difference in the mechanic, technologie, gameplay and era are soo important, that try to find a comparaison outside the pleasure of the nostalgia is... dumb!
i do attack this comparaison because it can't be done. it mustn't done!

we have acces to more powerfull AI, more powerfull computer than the time of FF11. they can devellop more intriguing and more challenging than content that relaying on a dumb RNG grind that the level 0 of the difficulty. where is the difficulty into this? where is the feeling to have accomplish anything exept spend hour to repeat, like if you was working at the chain, the same pattern of skill. nothing! you take no risk, you don't progress, you don't become better at play your class!

i am for stuff that ask hours and day and week of fun and challenge to accomplish. but that! is not fun, is not challenging. all you have describe is not fun is not challenging. all i can read is give the easy stuff that maybe take time, but don't will make me become better or will ask me to use my brain. what you want are activity called nobrain!

FF11 was filled to brink with stuff like this. you didn't feel accomplishement to get an item that you did wanted... but relieved that you have finish with this task. the feeling of accomplishement and relieved are not the same!

RNG or not.

A grind is still a grind.

A RNG grind can be done in no time or take age. a grind without rng will take always the same amount of work for anybody doing it. that a huge difference.
we already have seen people spend 36 hours for get 1 atma and some get the 12 atma in 8hrs... is that fair? no! do the one that did get the atma in 8hrs did work more? no it's the inverse! the trouble with RNG is this effort =/= reward

Evolved? I thought mmos are still stuck in the "WoW" era?

return play at WoW you will see the difference, if you can't sorry for you.

[Sorata]

snip

Couldn't agree with this more. I think the best part of this system is, for people who enjoy solo play, or might not want to do a lot of end game dungeons, actually CAN get this weapon. For raid groups they can get different weapons if they want. The team did a great job balancing having two type of gears that can be accomplished in two different ways.

[NyneAlexander]

two out of three examples mentioned in the OP had actual, trackable goals. Alot of the "grind" in ffxi also had trackable goals. Fates are basically scratch off tickets. You aren't working towards anything during the fate phase except scratching off another ticket. The only skill involved in a scratch off ticket is your ability to go to the store, purchase one, reach for a coin, and scratch off the ticket. The only skill involved in farming fates is your ability to go to the fate, participate (this might involve pressing the sync button! omg!) and remain in the zone until you get credit for participation.

Not only is this portion of the quest totally random and based on luck, but its insulting that the gate of this endgame quest for what will arguably be the best weapon available in the future, involves going to low level, tutorial style content and spamming it.

[Tupsi]

we have acces to more powerfull AI, more powerfull computer than the time of FF12. they can devellop more intriguing and more challenging content

And you proved Doo's point. They can do SO MUCH MORE, yet they choose not to. Maybe they will 6 years from now and since you say "we shouldn't compare FFXI to ARR"...where are these systems?

Trust NPCs - you know, more "intelligent AI" XIV ARR should have had this out of the gate since 1.x had the Companion system to work with.
Monstrosity - Playing and leveling as a Monster. If ARR is so "advanced" why does the old 2002 PS2 MMORPG have a system like this but not the "Far superior" 2013 MMORPG? Yeah it didn't come at release, but ARR is still using concepts from FFXIV 1.0 released back in 2010.

FF11 was filled to brink with stuff like this. you didn't feel accomplishement to get an item that you did wanted

You didn't and that's ok. I felt pretty accomplished to get my Relic, Mythic towards completion, Empyrean towards completion and clear Provenance Watcher before the nerfs.

[TeaTimeBear]

Couldn't agree with this more. I think the best part of this system is, for people who enjoy solo play, or might not want to do a lot of end game dungeons, actually CAN get this weapon. For raid groups they can get different weapons if they want. The team did a great job balancing having two type of gears that can be accomplished in two different ways.

How do you solo play fates when they're near finished thanks to the big groups running through them?

[Marael]

Spent a year or so doing farming gil for 2 hourglasses a week and running dynamis twice a week for my Aegis in XI, and four-ish months of farming dynamis almost daily solo once they changed it each for my mandau and gungnir. Then grinding out gil for months, and months, and months to upgrade them all to 99. Atma farming and zodiac book grinding is NOTHING compared to that. I'm fine with the grind. It gives me a lasting goal to work for, which is something that has been somewhat lacking thus far in XIV, and it doesn't necessarily require I be in perfect gear, with a perfect internet connection, and perfect skills. Sure, there are better, easier to obtain weapons out there as of this patch, but that's not why I'm doing the grind. I'm doing it because it's an attainable long term goal to work toward and that's what I've been looking for in this game.

[silentwindfr]

you are eluding the point by simply trying turn around the point i have made.

- the fight in ARR ask much more than in FF11. even if i think we are only at the start and that they are trying to not go to far (they must gear up a bit)
- monstruosity? why? we are playing adventurer, how explain this in the lore of the game? that the difference here. if they have wanted to add it, if it did bring something to the game to have it, they will have add it.

the concept keeps are the world and it lore, the armory systeme (even if i think they really need to drop it or change it at some point for make it more flexible) and... well that all. the map was remake, the whole systeme was remake from scratch, the ui was changed (a couple time), the fighting was changed... ohh year we have keep the item, part of the armory system... but the crafting was changed too (even if i wish they give it a role)....

i can continue for hours, they don't call it arr for nothing. and if you talk of the idea... FF14 ARR have take more of the recent mmorpg than FF14 or FF11 combined.

Spent a year or so doing farming gil for 2 hourglasses a week and running dynamis twice a week for my Aegis in XI, and four-ish months of farming dynamis almost daily solo once they changed it for my mandau and gungnir. Atma farming and zodiac book grinding is NOTHING compared to that. I'm fine with the grind. It gives me a lasting goal to work for, which is something that has been somewhat lacking thus far in XIV, and it doesn't necessarily require I be in perfect gear, with a perfect internet connection, and perfect skills. Sure, there are better, easier to obtain weapons out there as of this patch, but that's not why I'm doing the grind. I'm doing it because it's an attainable long term goal to work toward and that's what I've been looking for in this game.

and one more time what we are pointing is the atma part filled with RNG not the grind itself.

[Roris]

It's not even consistently long term either, if you're lucky you can be done in a day or less, that's not very long term. Good long term goals are you know, actually long term because they involve a lot of steps, not because of an artificial RNG barrier that can make them shorter or longer.