Over-healing should not generate extra threat

[Dale]

I'm rather confused as to where I know you from in FF11, but if you cherish a petty victory in FFXI's rather lackluster PvP system, I feel kinda sorry for you. Not that I claim any sort of skill in PvP mind you. That's not my preference for gaming.

Regardless, of that, even if you try to play the absolute innocence in the situation in which you claimed hate, which I severely doubt is genuine given your demeanor thus far, it sounds like you have severe difficulty handling any sort of threat headed your way. I will say again, that adaptation to the game mechanics is a part of developing skill, not complaining to have them change because you do not agree with the concept.


There was a lot I did not agree with in FFXI's mechanics. Some mechanics here in this game also irk me. But I do not demand they be changed because I actually strive to understand the through process behind instituting them. Even if you are to disagree, you are very much in the minority in this regard.

There was a "Dale" once, I recall in FFXI. He was remarkable at adapting existing mechanics of the game to fit his playstyle, even when conventional play-styles decried his methodology and pressed him out of party-play. I remember that individual fondly because of that. Sadly, I don't think you are this Dale I know. He would adapt
.

I assure you I am that Dale

And when so-called adapting means I have to limit my gameplay in such stupid ways as neglecting to use one of my favorite and most effective spells on the tank there is a problem. This game has limited gameplay enough. To limit it further is out of the question.

As a white mage, I should be able to freely use regen without complicating pulls for a tank. It really is that simple.

This is a gameplay/mechanic issue. It's not a player issue. We have regen for a reason. And that reason is to use it. There is adaptation. Then there is just poor game design. This issue fits in the latter.

[Hyrist]

I assure you I am that Dale

I don't understand what's exactly wrong here for you. If the tank is being overzealous in his pulls, or pulling while you have regen up, run with him. That doesn't limit his mechanics, or yours. And I know for a fact you don't fear Melee range. Sure, you get hate for a moment, that just means you're in control to where the monsters go. It'd be worse if my Eos caught attention from whispering wind and I don't have the opportunity to micro her next to the tank causing the tank to move.

But here, you're in full control over that circumstance, Dale. It's not limiting you. If you want to keep Regen on your tank, you know what's going to happen. Maybe pop a stoneskin on yourself and, heck, get a good holy in so that the mobs are stunned long enough to be flashed.

Question though, Why White Mage? I thought you loved Sword and Board.

[Dale]

I don't understand what's exactly wrong here for you. If the tank is being overzealous in his pulls, or pulling while you have regen up, run with him. That doesn't limit his mechanics, or yours. And I know for a fact you don't fear Melee range. Sure, you get hate for a moment, that just means you're in control to where the monsters go. It'd be worse if my Eos caught attention from whispering wind and I don't have the opportunity to micro her next to the tank causing the tank to move.

But here, you're in full control over that circumstance, Dale. It's not limiting you. If you want to keep Regen on your tank, you know what's going to happen. Maybe pop a stoneskin on yourself and, heck, get a good holy in so that the mobs are stunned long enough to be flashed.

Question though, Why White Mage? I thought you loved Sword and Board.

It depends on the tank. Yes, a skilled and experience tank can deal with it usually. But if it's a new tank still learning the ropes (which is often the case when doing random duty finders) it can turn into a nightmare. It doesn't matter if I run with him or not. Besides, I always stay relatively near the tank anyways during most instances because I do like to use Holy. But you can't use holy when a half dozen mobs are beating the crap out of you (not to mention that creates quite a bit of threat in itself and might compound the problem). And 90% of all tanks are over-zealous with pulls. That's the norm on this game.

The problem is regen creates an imbalanced amount of threat right at the start that many tanks struggle with. It's just a nuisance, and holds back the gameplay. It would be far better just to make a regen pulse that does 0 damage cause 0 threat.

And I also play a black mage. I don't play a paladin because that's what my friend plays. You may remember him. Called "Dest" for short. ^^

[Hyrist]

It depends on the tank. Yes, a skilled and experience tank can deal with it usually. But if it's a new tank still learning the ropes (which is often the case when doing random duty finders) it can turn into a nightmare. It doesn't matter if I run with him or not. Besides, I always stay relatively near the tank anyways during most instances because I do like to use Holy. But you can't use holy when a half dozen mobs are beating the crap out of you.

The problem is regen creates an imbalanced amount of threat right at the start that many tanks struggle with. It's just a nuisance, and holds back the gameplay. It would be far better just to make a regen pulse that does 0 damage cause 0 threat.

- like they did in FFXI, I understand the idea. I'm just not in agreement.

Mainly because I don't mind being difficult on newer tanks. The extreme Primals are hell. They need to know how to deal with situations that can turn awkward or dire quickly, and a mage getting hate of a Regen Tick on DF trash mobs is a far safer environment to learn that sort of thing from.

Also, Holy on Quickcast does wonders on the whole "I've got six mobs on me and need to buy time." Bit. The stun length on holy is insane, and if the Tank cant get it off you in that time, yeah, sorry, but I'm pinning that blame solely on the tank then, not the game mechanics. I know you don't like to blame people who are learning, but nothing's wrong with making a misstep as a tank learning through hard Mode Dungeons.

But I understand your frustration. I just don't agree this time around that changing the mechanics is a solution to that.

Just to be curious, where are you encountering this problem the most? I run Scholar as my healer (Something about WHM/BLM rubs me the wrong way when it comes to Mages). So I'm uncertain which pulls in particular you're having trouble with.

And I also play a black mage. I don't play a paladin because that's what my friend plays. You may remember him. Called "Dest" for short. ^^

Ah, memories. Though, you guys should swap back and forth if he's ok switching roles. One of my joys in this game is being able to play multiple classes far easier than in FFXI, due to the lighter overall gearing requirement.

I split them on different characters, however, mainly for Roleplaying's sake. I just can't immerse myself into a character that can be highly proficient at multiple disciplines that really should be taking their life-dedication to master.

[Dale]

- like they did in FFXI, I understand the idea. I'm just not in agreement.Mainly because I don't mind being difficult on newer tanks. The extreme Primals are hell. They need to know how to deal with situations that can turn awkward or dire quickly, and a mage getting hate of a Regen Tick on DF trash mobs is a far safer environment to learn that sort of thing from.

Also, Holy on Quickcast does wonders on the whole "I've got six mobs on me and need to buy time." Bit. The stun length on holy is insane, and if the Tank cant get it off you in that time, yeah, sorry, but I'm pinning that blame solely on the tank then, not the game mechanics. I know you don't like to blame people who are learning, but nothing's wrong with making a misstep as a tank learning through hard Mode Dungeons.

But I understand your frustration. I just don't agree this time around that changing the mechanics is a solution to that.

Just to be curious, where are you encountering this problem the most? I run Scholar as my healer (Something about WHM/BLM rubs me the wrong way when it comes to Mages). So I'm uncertain which pulls in particular you're having trouble with.

It's not any particular pull, and swift cast/sure cast are not always available and can't be relied on for such a frequent situation.

Blaming the tank does me no good if I am dead. Not to mention I have no desire to make his/her job more difficult. But I also refuse to neglect my abilities to accommodate what I consider to be poor game design. So until they fix this, I will continue to get the pulp beat out of me when ever a tank bites off more than they can chew.

It's fine we disagree. People often do.

[Dale]

Ah, memories. Though, you guys should swap back and forth if he's ok switching roles. .

He's not ok with it

[Hyrist]

He's not ok with it

Bah. You don't have any others you can play with to get into the tanking role, are are you just ok letting it go?

Sorry, it's just hard to picture you as a mage after so long you being a Paladin. Then again, me on a Female Dragoon avatar is bound to be throwing you off a bit. >.>

As far as the healing game goes, you're talking frustrations around 4 man events on mechanics designed primarily around 8-man. In which case we have Scholar to Consider. If White Mage had no punishment for the Regen Ticks on Medica II and Regen, there'd be little need for the shielding mechanics that I find to be a quintessential mechanic of Scholar.

And I don't think MP management is a significant enough punishment. Especially considering how MP light trash-monster pulls tend to be. Remember, there's no hate cap in this game. (Not Volatile Enmity either) Without HoT hate, there would be virtually no way for a healer to take hate in this game unless they increased curing enmity for burst healing, which, to me, would be an even worse nightmare.

[Zplinter]

As a white mage, I should be able to freely use regen without complicating pulls for a tank. It really is that simple.

This is a gameplay/mechanic issue. It's not a player issue. We have regen for a reason. And that reason is to use it. There is adaptation. Then there is just poor game design. This issue fits in the latter.

Herein is the problem. You expect to freely use any skill you want when you want how you want. All about you. Your derision of other players telling you that they disagree is telling. So it is fact a player (you in this case) issue.
This is a game where the devs have set up the mechanics in such a way that skill use is situational, This is NOT FF XI, this NOT WoW, etc, this is FF XIV ARR. There is a clear vocal majority on the forums that disagree with your premise, as do Devs it seems.
We as players that heal have exactly THREE options: We adapt to the mechanics of the game. We decide we do not like the mechanics and leave and take our money with us. We continue to play they way we want to and accept the outcome.

[LexSunfire]

This is a gameplay/mechanic issue. It's not a player issue. We have regen for a reason. And that reason is to use it. There is adaptation. Then there is just poor game design. This issue fits in the latter.

False. The whole point of the game is to know when to use skills/spells and when not to use skills/spells. part of knowing when to use skills/spells requires taking into account what the rest of your party is doing. If anyone should be able to use any skill/spell whenever they want... you've totally made this game a button-masher with very little strategy involved. taking away the need to work as a team totally defeats the purpose of a team game.